Ratings vs Cardiff City

[Legend10]

I'd probably revise my defenders ratings, especially after now noticing Verthongen's part in the Lloris handball incident which is actually a far worse piece of defensive work than simply underhitting a pass, and it's difficult to rate defenders sometimes when they can have a reasonable game but then make a couple of hashes like Naughton did. Do you rate the 89 mins or the 1 min?

I think collectively, our defence is as good as I've seen from us, but some of our individual defending can be poor at times which so far hasn't really cost us because collectively we do so well, but it may begin to cost us if not addressed. I can forgive an error like Naughton's back pass, it's just a fuck up, what does concern me though is players like Walker and Dawson continually making the same sort of errors, over and over. We really don't want to undermine how well we defend as a team, from front to back, with individual errors that repeat over and over.

I can never fault Dawson and Walker's application, attitude and the good they bring to the group spirit (which should never be underestimated), but I do have ongoing concerns. With Walker, he has time on his side and a fucking good approach to the game so I am happy to see him develop at RB for us for now, but Daws is unlikely to get any better now, and hope to see Kaboul (or Chiriches maybe) cement their place when fit/ready. I've never said Dawson is terrible, but he's not an ideal fit for our system, and I think we can demand almost the very best now as the club has gradually improved. As for Rose, been very impressed so far this season, give him a run and let him prove himself.

I think we're in a position now to wonder how brilliant we'd be defensively if we put the very best players into what clearly is a tremendously coached collective approach to defending.

Firstly I wasn't directing my post at you or specifically anybody else, but the nonsense spouted on here about Naughton before during and after yesterday's game comes about from pre-conceived opinions on him playing at LB. If anybody wants to take the time and go and watch yesterday's game again and keep an open mind on Naughton it's clear that the shit spouted about his performance yesterday is a joke at best, and at worst it's probably best not to go there.

He made an error by under hitting the back pass to Lloris, but nobody would have even noticed had Verts been switched on, other than that he misplaced 1 pass in the entire first half (I missed the first 2 minutes), and he made one error in the second half but contributed well going forward so what's all the abuse about? What really pisses me is that it's all pre-determined, Naughtons playing LB, he's shit because some braindeads on SC say so so let's tear him a new one! It's ridiculous, totally ridiculous! People should just give the guy a break, he's a back up RB doing a job at LB where in all honesty he's behind Rose and if AVB could realistically played either Younis or Vlad yesterday then he's behind Verts as well. So he's playing in a position in a tough away game where he's third choice and all people want to do on here is criticise him, which to a point is fair enough, but the abuse levelled towards him isn't.

As for Dawson he wouldn't be playing if Younis hadn't been out for a year and he may move behind Vlad as well, but he's doing a job. He's not going to improve no, but all teams do need a fighting heart and although he struggles in some areas he gives us some of that needed ingredient. All the bullshit about he could have got sent off yesterday is a joke, after he was booked he never committed another foul, and if he wants to go and introduce himself to Campbell on the halfway line then good for him, what's the problem? Dawson is first choice at the moment even though we all know Younis is a better player, but Younis isn't ready yet and Daws is doing a job.

As for the shit constantly spouted on here about Walker, that's even more of a joke! I read he's not intelligent has poor technique blah blah blah! Absolute load of shit, he's a very good RB and certainly good enough for us, people should get of his back and let him play. And a bit like Daws who provides heart to a team, Walker has a bit of that and he provides another ingredient that is required, character, you can see it in the likes of him, Sandro, Holtby, JD and one or two others, these things can't be measured but they are crucial to have in a winning team.

We wouldn't be winning anything with 11 Eriksens or 11 Paulinho's, Lamela's of anybody else, it's about the whole blend and the boys in our team who are constantly slaughtered on here even before a ball has been kicked provide a lot of what is required.

Here is a list of the SC scapegoats;

Dawson
Naughton
Walker
Defoe
Rose
Townsend
Siggy

Funnily apart from Siggy it's all our English players, must be something in the water!

 

[OmarsComing]

Firstly I wasn't directing my post at you or specifically anybody else, but the nonsense spouted on here about Naughton before during and after yesterday's game comes about from pre-conceived opinions on him playing at LB. If anybody wants to take the time and go and watch yesterday's game again and keep an open mind on Naughton it's clear that the shit spouted about his performance yesterday is a joke at best, and at worst it's probably best not to go there.

He made an error by under hitting the back pass to Lloris, but nobody would have even noticed had Verts been switched on, other than that he misplaced 1 pass in the entire first half (I missed the first 2 minutes), and he made one error in the second half but contributed well going forward so what's all the abuse about? What really pisses me is that it's all pre-determined, Naughtons playing LB, he's shit because some braindeads on SC say so so let's tear him a new one! It's ridiculous, totally ridiculous! People should just give the guy a break, he's a back up RB doing a job at LB where in all honesty he's behind Rose and if AVB could realistically played either Younis or Vlad yesterday then he's behind Verts as well. So he's playing in a position in a tough away game where he's third choice and all people want to do on here is criticise him, which to a point is fair enough, but the abuse levelled towards him isn't.

As for Dawson he wouldn't be playing if Younis hadn't been out for a year and he may move behind Vlad as well, but he's doing a job. He's not going to improve no, but all teams do need a fighting heart and although he struggles in some areas he gives us some of that needed ingredient. All the bullshit about he could have got sent off yesterday is a joke, after he was booked he never committed another foul, and if he wants to go and introduce himself to Campbell on the halfway line then good for him, what's the problem? Dawson is first choice at the moment even though we all know Younis is a better player, but Younis isn't ready yet and Daws is doing a job.

As for the shit constantly spouted on here about Walker, that's even more of a joke! I read he's not intelligent has poor technique blah blah blah! Absolute load of shit, he's a very good RB and certainly good enough for us, people should get of his back and let him play. And a bit like Daws who provides heart to a team, Walker has a bit of that and he provides another ingredient that is required, character, you can see it in the likes of him, Sandro, Holtby, JD and one or two others, these things can't be measured but they are crucial to have in a winning team.

We wouldn't be winning anything with 11 Eriksens or 11 Paulinho's, Lamela's of anybody else, it's about the whole blend and the boys in our team who are constantly slaughtered on here even before a ball has been kicked provide a lot of what is required.

Here is a list of the SC scapegoats;

Dawson
Naughton
Walker
Defoe
Rose
Townsend
Siggy

Funnily apart from Siggy it's all our English players, must be something in the water!

Or maybe our weakest players in the squad?

Also you missed out Friedel.

 

[Legend10]

Or maybe our weakest players in the squad?

Also you missed out Friedel.

I intentionally missed out Brad because he doesn't play really now, but we can rest assured that when he does pull on the gloves this place will go into overdrive!

So what if they're the weakest players in our squad? Daws, walkers and 1 of Naughts/Rose has played every game in our defence this season and we've let in 1 goal in 8 games, I bet nobody even has any idea when the last time we let in 1 in 8?

None of them maybe perfect and a lot of them probably as time goes on won't be in our strongest 11, so why not get off their backs (again not you specifically)?

And if they are going to be torn apart like Naughts was yesterday at least play the game first and give an objective opinion, he was roasted as soon as the team was announced and it never let up from there!

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I've just watched that goal again. That really is a world class piece of football.

92nd minute, up against a resilient team with 11 men behind the ball, we find the pass that releases Lamella, keeps his head and his head up and threads an ball to the only person possible and our CM who has shown the desire to get forward careers onto it and in a 1/4 spin back heels it in.

A goal of pure craft, guile and desire. A thing of pure beauty and better than any 25 yard screamer IMO.

 

[ShelfSide18]

I've just watched that goal again. That really is a world class piece of football.

92nd minute, up against a resilient team with 11 men behind the ball, we find the pass that releases Lamella, keeps his head and his head up and threads an ball to the only place possible and our CM who has shown the desire to get forward careers onto it and in a 1/4 spin back heels it in.

A goal of pure craft, guile and desire. A thing of pure beauty and better than any 25 yard screamer IMO.

What I really loved about the last few minutes was that we kept playing football, we didn't resort to lumping long balls up towards Soldado or maybe even sending a CB up and hope for a lucky drop and someone to bundle home a second ball. No, we passed it, we probed and in the end created 2 genuine quality chances. The first when Holtby found Paulinho with a lovely pass, then of course the goal.

Really impressive few minutes of top notch, intelligent proper football.

 

[Legend10]

What I really loved about the last few minutes was that we kept playing football, we didn't resort to lumping long balls up towards Soldado or maybe even sending a CB up and hope for a lucky drop and someone to bundle home a second ball. No, we passed it, we probed and in the end created 2 genuine quality chances. The first when Holtby found Paulinho with a lovely pass, then of course the goal.

Really impressive few minutes of top notch, intelligent proper football.

Well that's not entirely true, positive which is great but of course in injury time we correctly lumped it forward as any team would do. Even the goal come from a 'lump' forward by Naughton which Verts and Daws were telling him to do, thankfully Lamela got his head on it and the rest is history.

 

[seanyboy]

What I really loved about the last few minutes was that we kept playing football, we didn't resort to lumping long balls up towards Soldado or maybe even sending a CB up and hope for a lucky drop and someone to bundle home a second ball.

Agree and disagree, I remember feeling a bit nervous that the team wasn't playing with more composure AND urgency near the end of regular time. When Cardiff had the spell of attack, we kept lumping it out of the danger zone (fairly sane but didn't do i tmuch during the rest of the game). Then, when we gained possession, we seemed to be playing (granted until stoppage time) as if there were another 20 minutes left at 85 minutes. Could be tiredness. Alas, it worked in the end so maybe it is me, a disconnected fan instead of a coach or player, that needs to change expectations.

 

[ShelfSide18]

Well that's not entirely true, positive which is great but of course in injury time we correctly lumped it forward as any team would do. Even the goal come from a 'lump' forward by Naughton which Verts and Daws were telling him to do, thankfully Lamela got his head on it and the rest is history.

Well it was a long switch towards Lamela, I don't think it quote constitutes a speculative lump towards the box hoping for something to fall from nothing!

You'll love this, L10 - stats (!!!) don't exactly show we were desperately humping it in the box late on. This is from 87-95 mins...

 

[Legend10]

It shows that we had them penned in, pretty much like most of the other 85 minutes, we're a good team.

 

[ShelfSide18]

It shows that we had them penned in, pretty much like most of the other 85 minutes, we're a good team.

Exactly, we didn't change the way we were playing, and got our rewards in the end. The composure that Holtby, and particularly Lamela showed was superb.

 

[seanyboy]

Well it was a long switch towards Lamela, I don't think it quote constitutes a speculative lump towards the box hoping for something to fall from nothing!

You'll love this, L10 - stats (!!!) don't exactly show we were desperately humping it in the box late on. This is from 87-95 mins...

Show the stats for 5-10 minutes before that stretch. I can't figure out how to share on the pc version. Tells a different story...

 

[Gb160]

I literally cannot stop watching that goal,it could be the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.
For those who have Youtube/SpursTv blocked at work....

http://mmp.streamuk.com/content/entry/data/4/306/0_k3ehfmqj_0_ldbhqgz5_1.mp4

 

[Flashspur]

watched the game again and I winced with that awful trap by Hugo that gave away the corner...i hope he gets the collywobbles out of his system now because it was painful to watch. I just loved how fluid we were though......we are getting close to how we played wth Harry but with a real structure to our play and there is steel in the middle of the park.....this side has a lot of improvement in it too which is frightening when you think how good we could become as long as we dont get injuries to some of the key players

 

[ShelfSide18]

Show the stats for 5-10 minutes before that stretch. I can't figure out how to share on the pc version. Tells a different story...

From 82-87 minutes.

 

[whitechina]

Naughton was nowhere near as bad as people are saying, nowhere near, it's embarrassing!

There wouldn't even have been an incident to report on in the first half had Verts not allowed Campbell to run onto the ball from 5 yards behind him, and that apart from one other time right at the end of the first half was the only time Naughton gave the ball away in 45 minutes.

As for the 2nd half I can recall 1 mistake, where were all the others that everybody is harping on about? Add to that he put a beauty of a cross into Soldado who volleyed straight at Marshall and was wrongly flagged offside.

Give the guy a break FFS! He's not a regular and he's playing on a side which is going to naturally inhibit him, but all of these so called big mistakes are a joke! Verts had a worse day than Naughton yesterday.

As for all of these so called shots from Townsend where he shouldn't have shot, where were they as well? Each time he took the shot on as far as I could see he was within his rights and was certainly better positioned than Walks and Paulinho when they had far more optimistic efforts.

Onto Dawson, some saying he might have been red carded, well as far as I remember he never committed another foul after being carded? And he went through a couple of players on the halfway line, so what? I've got no problem with a CB crunching somebody in that area of the pitch.

So far this season defensively people continue to say how bad Walker, Dawson, Rose and Naughton are, it must be a miracle that we've conceded 1 goal in 8 games. Or maybe people think we won't make mistakes defensively, or concede chances or half chances? If so they need to get real because we will and we will concede some bad goals, but Jesus give the boys a break especially when we are doing so well.

Is this going to replace Harry's 3 points from 8 games- because I like it!

 

[batigol]

Firstly I wasn't directing my post at you or specifically anybody else, but the nonsense spouted on here about Naughton before during and after yesterday's game comes about from pre-conceived opinions on him playing at LB. If anybody wants to take the time and go and watch yesterday's game again and keep an open mind on Naughton it's clear that the shit spouted about his performance yesterday is a joke at best, and at worst it's probably best not to go there.

He made an error by under hitting the back pass to Lloris, but nobody would have even noticed had Verts been switched on, other than that he misplaced 1 pass in the entire first half (I missed the first 2 minutes), and he made one error in the second half but contributed well going forward so what's all the abuse about? What really pisses me is that it's all pre-determined, Naughtons playing LB, he's shit because some braindeads on SC say so so let's tear him a new one! It's ridiculous, totally ridiculous! People should just give the guy a break, he's a back up RB doing a job at LB where in all honesty he's behind Rose and if AVB could realistically played either Younis or Vlad yesterday then he's behind Verts as well. So he's playing in a position in a tough away game where he's third choice and all people want to do on here is criticise him, which to a point is fair enough, but the abuse levelled towards him isn't.

As for Dawson he wouldn't be playing if Younis hadn't been out for a year and he may move behind Vlad as well, but he's doing a job. He's not going to improve no, but all teams do need a fighting heart and although he struggles in some areas he gives us some of that needed ingredient. All the bullshit about he could have got sent off yesterday is a joke, after he was booked he never committed another foul, and if he wants to go and introduce himself to Campbell on the halfway line then good for him, what's the problem? Dawson is first choice at the moment even though we all know Younis is a better player, but Younis isn't ready yet and Daws is doing a job.

As for the shit constantly spouted on here about Walker, that's even more of a joke! I read he's not intelligent has poor technique blah blah blah! Absolute load of shit, he's a very good RB and certainly good enough for us, people should get of his back and let him play. And a bit like Daws who provides heart to a team, Walker has a bit of that and he provides another ingredient that is required, character, you can see it in the likes of him, Sandro, Holtby, JD and one or two others, these things can't be measured but they are crucial to have in a winning team.

We wouldn't be winning anything with 11 Eriksens or 11 Paulinho's, Lamela's of anybody else, it's about the whole blend and the boys in our team who are constantly slaughtered on here even before a ball has been kicked provide a lot of what is required.

Here is a list of the SC scapegoats;

Dawson
Naughton
Walker
Defoe
Rose
Townsend
Siggy

Funnily apart from Siggy it's all our English players, must be something in the water!

With you on this and I just want to add that it bothers me how Siggy continues to get rated poorly or tagged with poor performances despite his obvious contributions and it is glaring when compared to the comments I see about Townsend. (Most raters had Siggy on lower or at most level scores with Townsend) I enjoy the energy and directness of Townsend which is definitely refreshing and has its advantages but it has been clear over the last 4 league games that he is way behind Siggy in terms of end product but people continue to value superficial excitement over actual effectiveness. Make no mistake, Siggy was more effective in this game, and several others as well, as he created at least 1 clear chance for Paulinho with his pull-back from the line and went closest to scoring with his shot against the crossbar while Townsend pretty much made poor decisions repeatedly after putting himself in decent positions.

The key difference between both players so far this season is that Siggy has shown that he is a thinking player while Townsend is brash and exciting but has thus far shown that he is pretty much a one trick pony of cutting in and shooting ineffectively. I hope he develops this in the coming games ahead but you can already see that Lamela will move ahead of him once he gets comfortable because his measured approach is much more effective without having to go on mazy runs every time he gets the ball.

Not putting down Townsend and he has every opportunity to develop into the class player but Siggy can be great for us as well and people just need to recognize that he is an effective footballer, not a flashy player, and give him his due when he clearly contributes more than what has been mentioned on the pitch.

 

[Tit&Ham]

With you on this and I just want to add that it bothers me how Siggy continues to get rated poorly or tagged with poor performances despite his obvious contributions and it is glaring when compared to the comments I see about Townsend. (Most raters had Siggy on lower or at most level scores with Townsend) I enjoy the energy and directness of Townsend which is definitely refreshing and has its advantages but it has been clear over the last 4 league games that he is way behind Siggy in terms of end product but people continue to value superficial excitement over actual effectiveness. Make no mistake, Siggy was more effective in this game, and several others as well, as he created at least 1 clear chance for Paulinho with his pull-back from the line and went closest to scoring with his shot against the crossbar while Townsend pretty much made poor decisions repeatedly after putting himself in decent positions.

The key difference between both players so far this season is that Siggy has shown that he is a thinking player while Townsend is brash and exciting but has thus far shown that he is pretty much a one trick pony of cutting in and shooting ineffectively. I hope he develops this in the coming games ahead but you can already see that Lamela will move ahead of him once he gets comfortable because his measured approach is much more effective without having to go on mazy runs every time he gets the ball.

Not putting down Townsend and he has every opportunity to develop into the class player but Siggy can be great for us as well and people just need to recognize that he is an effective footballer, not a flashy player, and give him his due when he clearly contributes more than what has been mentioned on the pitch.

I'm fairly fan of Siggy and agree with you on most. Still, yesterday he couldn't get into the game. I was hoping for Lamela to replace him at half time. Also I had the Tromsø-game in mind when I felt he was a bit off...

He has got the end product and is very intelligent as you say, and showed that yesterday with the shot that hit the post. But in some games (like yesterday) he just cannot get into the game. Other players like Lennon and Townsend can stay on the field just because they are a threat with their pace that can create space for others, but when Siggy is not performing he is no threat...

 

[only1waddle]

Exactly, we didn't change the way we were playing, and got our rewards in the end. The composure that Holtby, and particularly Lamela showed was superb.

If Holtby can keep that composure we could have an exceptional pair of No.10's , both with different styles, Eriksen clearly the better player, but Holtby really does have an eye for that killer pass.. exciting times

 

[ShelfSide18]

If Holtby can keep that composure we could have an exceptional pair of No.10's , both with different styles, Eriksen clearly the better player, but Holtby really does have an eye for that killer pass.. exciting times

Holtby does love looking for that killer ball, last season he was always looking for it and it didn't quite come off, and sometimes he is guilty of trying to force that final ball, but he's relaxing at Spurs now and we're starting to see his quality.

 

[only1waddle]

Holtby does love looking for that killer ball, last season he was always looking for it and it didn't quite come off, and sometimes he is guilty of trying to force that final ball, but he's relaxing at Spurs now and we're starting to see his quality.

I think the lack of movement from others last season killed plenty of potential moves, we have pretty much bought some football nous over the summer, and a true box to box midfielder in Paulinho, Holtby seems to have stepped up a gear in reply to that.