Ratings vs Everton

[THFCSPURS19]

There's loads I love about Poch's Spurs, but my biggest worry before we hired Poch was how his Southampton team rarely managed to play past 60 minutes of any game, giving up more points from winning positions than any other team. He still hasn't solved this flaw. Week in week out Poch's tactical subs contribute to this horrible stat.

I agree that it is an issue, but last season we got loads of points from losing positions (maybe even the most), which included many goals from the 80th minute onwards, so it's been more of a problem this season than throughout Poch's entire time here.

 

[Davo99]

Lloris 8
Walker 6
Vertonghen 7
Alderweireld 8 (motm)
Davies 5
Dier 7
Carroll 7
Lamela 8
Eriksen 7
Alli 7
Kane 6

I thought Davies was shit.

 

[glospur]

Lloris: 7

Walker: 7 - Kone rarely sighted and he played well going forward.

Alderweireld: 9 - Didn't put a foot wrong. Outstanding ball for the goal

Vertonghen: 8 - Lukaku barely had a sniff all game. Maybe criticised for losing the header for their goal.

Davies: 6 - Lost Lennon for the goal and struggled against Deulofeu.

Dier: 7 - Generally tidy and did well to snuff out a number of threatening situations.

Carroll: 8 - Played well. A couple of mistakes but saw more ball and made more passes than anyone else, intercepted and created chances. Did it all.

Eriksen: 7 - Good first half. Surprised to see him taken off, I thought it should have been Lamela.

Bumble Bee Alli: 8 - Lovely goal and generally played well. Bumble.

Lamela: 6 - Nothing really worked for him and committed too many fouls. Surprised to see him left and Erisken right when most of their best games come from the other side. Should have been subbed instead of Eriksen imo.

Kane: 6 - Quiet. Lovely shot which hit the post, would have been a completely different game if t hat went in.

 

[sloth]

to the player who’d largely bumbled his way through probably the worst half of any of our players, only for him to chest and bury the chance in the most fluent and beautiful fashion.


Prior to that moment Alli had looked, not for the first time, like a round peg in a square hole in that “10” role. Making hard work of controlling the ball under pressure, making poor decisions and failing to play in Lamela with the simplest of two yard taps. The boy had had a bad half, and yet there he was, a perfectly timed run and sweet finish.

Whenever we got near Alli bumbled, Lamela fumbled, the ball wouldn’t bounce quite right or Everton defended with last ditch stoicism to deny. Sure we’d crashed their woodwork twice, but these were from long range missiles.

And herein lies a conundrum for me. The Alli conundrum. The boy is clearly a presence and brings qualities, but he’s clearly not a “10” in the same way that Kane is clearly not a “10”. In these tight confines these two can be clumsy, heavy of touch, lack the unison of zippy brain and nimble foot. There is no dilemma with Kane, his role is clear and perfect. He was made to be an uber striker of the lone variety. But what to do with Alli if not the “10”. He brings some good characteristics and productivity, but how do we best utilise them without compromising other aspects of the team dynamic. The simple answer would be play a 433 and have him play right of the CM3, bombing into the box from deeper, hard to pick up positions. But that’s not likely to happen.

Alli - Goal apart was pretty poor first half, fumbling a couple of great chances when we had them on the hop, caught in possession a couple of times, then he pops up with a sublime run, chest and finish. He worked hard though and was Ok second half, but as has become the norm he was flagging from about 60 mins.

Where's the "Change the fucking record!" rating when you need it! (And I'm sure you agree with that BC!)

 

[yusrisafri]

60 minute Man

Football can be a bizarre and mistress with an over active irony gland at times. And so it was we found ourselves 0-1 down in a game we had utterly dominated, to our opponents only visit to our half in that first 45 minutes, a top corner screamer scored by a player who in a long career with us rarely managed to score anything that didn’t dribble it’s way over the line apologetically, with virtually his only kick of the game.

For our own contribution to the festival of irony, after a half of total ball domination and much intricate approach play, often adroitly orchestrated by the impish but articulate Carroll and Eriksen our equalizer came via the rather agricultural route one from Alderweireld, to the player who’d largely bumbled his way through probably the worst half of any of our players, only for him to chest and bury the chance in the most fluent and beautiful fashion.


Prior to that moment Alli had looked, not for the first time, like a round peg in a square hole in that “10” role. Making hard work of controlling the ball under pressure, making poor decisions and failing to play in Lamela with the simplest of two yard taps. The boy had had a bad half, and yet there he was, a perfectly timed run and sweet finish.


Although I’ve always had good words for Carroll, I’ve always had doubts too, his talents are clear, he is constantly in motion seeking the ball and rotating, looking to pass forwards, some of us have seen him dominate U18 & U21 games against the best young midfields in the country, and most of us have seen him run games against some of Europe’s lesser lights in the Europa, but we have yet to really see him do this at EPL level and like most of us I guess, I was beginning to think I never would, and I was really surprised to see him selected again after his recent outings, especially with Bentaleb sitting on the bench. But he was superb for much of today, and how he wasn’t given the official MOTM award by Sky’s pundits is an absolute travesty. The kid made 60/68 passes, joint most tackles (4) second most interceptions (3) than anyone else but more importantly was all over the pitch, constantly keeping things tick tick tick ticking. Ably assisted by Eriksen, who I thought was also outstanding in that first half, continually dropping and drifting, playing both full backs in behind with piercing through balls.


The only thing the half lacked was for our completely dominant approach play to produce actual clear quality chances at close quarters. Whenever we got near Alli bumbled, Lamela fumbled, the ball wouldn’t bounce quite right or Everton defended with last ditch stoicism to deny. Sure we’d crashed their woodwork twice, but these were from long range missiles.


And herein lies a conundrum for me. The Alli conundrum. The boy is clearly a presence and brings qualities, but he’s clearly not a “10” in the same way that Kane is clearly not a “10”. In these tight confines these two can be clumsy, heavy of touch, lack the unison of zippy brain and nimble foot. There is no dilemma with Kane, his role is clear and perfect. He was made to be an uber striker of the lone variety. But what to do with Alli if not the “10”. He brings some good characteristics and productivity, but how do we best utilise them without compromising other aspects of the team dynamic. The simple answer would be play a 433 and have him play right of the CM3, bombing into the box from deeper, hard to pick up positions. But that’s not likely to happen.

You can see today, in Carroll, and we others like Bentaleb and Mason too, when it works, having a player like that is a much better symbiosis as the CM2 partner for the robust no nonsense Dier when he plays, how that balance works much better than the less dynamic and metronomic Alli or the slow to release the ball Dembele, as his partner.

If you look back at many of our games we have drawn too many, we have lost more points from winning positions than anyone. Not everything is right. I think a fantastic work ethic and spirit, set piece goals improvement, defensive solidity, not qualities to be underestimated, are slightly masking the fact that we are not quite getting the balance right in midfield and attacking midfield a lot of the time. Eriksen on the right for example? I love our spirit and work ethic under Poch more than I have under any manager in my time watching us I think. I think there are games when it really does all click. I appreciate Alli’s ability to get himself into the box and on the end of things, his character, his aggression, but there is still something not quite right about the balance of this team and his role in it, and until we solve it, we will not be the best we can be IMO.

It has to be said that we were helped greatly in the first half by Martinez’s poor tactical deployment of Kone and Lennon. But, not for the first time (understatement klaxon) I thought Pochettino’s tactical substitutions in reaction to Martinez’s second half changes were atrocious and we thoroughly lost our way. The knackered Kane, bumbling Alli or erratic Lamela should have all been ahead of Eriksen in the queue to go, as Martinez added Besic to their midfield and Deulofeu to their attack, once Eriksen went it was three bumblers and a weary Kane (who cost us two dangerous counter attacks with his tired bumbling) left up there, no more Eriksen to show for the ball, be composed, do the simple but effective thing. For the second week running Pochettino completely surrendered initiative and was outwitted tactically in game. Carroll had no-one to play with, and the game became an end to end lottery.

This was still a game we deserved to win, and were clearly the better side for 60 minutes, regardless of what that fucking idiot Martinez said, and that first half was one of the best we’ve played this season away from home, but the second got messy. And as is becoming the norm, Pochettino’s subs contributed heavily to that, just as they did last game against Watford. There's loads I love about Poch's Spurs, but my biggest worry before we hired Poch was how his Southampton team rarely managed to play past 60 minutes of any game, giving up more points from winning positions than any other team. He still hasn't solved this flaw. Week in week out Poch's tactical subs contribute to this horrible stat.


Individual

Lloris - Not much to do.

Walker - Very good game. I thought he had one of his best games in a Spurs shirt. But he needs to deliver a cross first time sometimes instead of wasting the chance by taking a steadying touch.

Alderweireld - Excellent game.

Vertonghen - OK. Not happy with him turning his back on Lennon’s shot. It’s Lennon for fuck sake.

Davies - Decent game.

Dier - Good first half, as is often the case, when the other team starts to get busy he can go a bit awol.

Carroll - MOTM - best game in the EPL for us. Was everywhere, and great to see him tackle and press like a fucker too.

Eriksen - I thought he was outstanding first half. Take a look at his passing matrix if you have access to it (I’ll post it later) his interplay with Carroll was a feature of our domination and he played a couple of lovely passes putting Walker in one side and Davies in the other. Should never have been subbed. Should have been Alli with Eriksen moved back the centre, Lamela and Son out wide helping the FB’s with the new threat after Martinez withdrew the ineffective Lennon and Kone.

Alli - Goal apart was pretty poor first half, fumbling a couple of great chances when we had them on the hop, caught in possession a couple of times, then he pops up with a sublime run, chest and finish. He worked hard though and was Ok second half, but as has become the norm he was flagging from about 60 mins.

Lamela - His usual work ethic and (joint most) tackle quota aside I thought he was also wasteful and gave away a couple of really stupid and unnecessary free kicks and got himself stupidly booked.

Kane - Worked hard, looked fucked from about 60 mins. Why not take him off and put Chadli, Alli or Son up there?

Excellent remarks and spot on with regards to Alli and Carroll

 

[dynamoSpurs]

Who voted Xmas carol as MOTM?

Do you compensate a poor performance with age and size? "well, for his age and experience and size, he had a cracker!". Is that what it's come to?

 

[spursram]

Who voted Xmas carol as MOTM?

Do you compensate a poor performance with age and size? "well, for his age and experience and size, he had a cracker!". Is that what it's come to?

Do we compensate a poor performance with age and size? No.

But we'll compensate your ridiculous comment by taking into account your mental age and minute IQ. Whatever your "dynamo" generates it isn't common sense. Stick your head up your arse mate. it might spark something into life.

 

[arunspurs]

Toby - Excellent. Running out of superlatives

Jan - Largely good Vs Lukaku but when it mattered, he failed to stop the shot

Walker, Davies, Lloris -solid game

Lamela - felt the yellows stopped his usual game in 2nd half

Carroll & Eriksen - THE reason we had such a great first half. First time in long time, I felt Eriksen's touch & passing were inch perfect. But both averaged out in 2nd half - mostly due to tiredness.

Son - bad game - attacking moves in 2nd half broke down with his bad first touch. I guess Son needs more game time.

Alli in AM - he drifts in & out of the game. But key is, he is a genuine match winner. Even when he has a average game, he has couple of moments in game where he creates great chances. He will improve as time goes on. If he makes mistake, we got to be patient with him & let him learn.

Dier had a average game.

Kane - Very unlucky. Had he scored, it would have been a difference game. Not many chances created by others so understandably weak performance.

 

[NEVILLEB]

First half was exceptional and we were unlucky not to go in 3-0 up if anything.

Second half our fullbacks performances dropped off. Davies started playing a bit poorly and for some god unknown reason nobody wanted to pass to Walker anymore who had been causing problems in the first half. Kane got tired. I still thought that Alli and Lamela were both very good all game though.

Eriksen....Eriksen is pissing me off. Hardly involved beyond a few nice touches, no longer running behind the defence or shooting dangerously. Doesn't press or offer anything defensively. Gave the ball away softly for their goal and when we got a freekick on the edge of their box he didn't fucking take it! What is he offering? I get why people defend the guy, he's an amazing footballer but his form is poor by his standards. He seems to struggle with Poch's fitness regime more than anyone and in my (not very important) opinion is probably overtraining. He looks like he could do with a rest so he can come back and enjoy his football more. That's another thing I'm confused about because he regularly stays on the pitch longer than the rest of the forwards.

He's probably not as fit as the others because he was injured early in the season.

 

[walton]

Toby - Excellent. Running out of superlatives

Jan - Largely good Vs Lukaku but when it mattered, he failed to stop the shot

Walker, Davies, Lloris -solid game

Lamela - felt the yellows stopped his usual game in 2nd half

Carroll & Eriksen - THE reason we had such a great first half. First time in long time, I felt Eriksen's touch & passing were inch perfect. But both averaged out in 2nd half - mostly due to tiredness.

Son - bad game - attacking moves in 2nd half broke down with his bad first touch. I guess Son needs more game time.

Alli in AM - he drifts in & out of the game. But key is, he is a genuine match winner. Even when he has a average game, he has couple of moments in game where he creates great chances. He will improve as time goes on. If he makes mistake, we got to be patient with him & let him learn.

Dier had a average game.

Kane - Very unlucky. Had he scored, it would have been a difference game. Not many chances created by others so understandably weak performance.

This is the key. Some people appear to want Alli to be influencing the game for 90 minutes. Not even Ronaldo influences a game for 90 minutes. As you say, he's a genuine match winner, and how many of them do we currently have? Not only does he have an eye for goal, but his movement in and around Kane is superb (look at the two chances/half chances he created second half). He's also got some real fire in his belly, which makes a change for our oft-lightweight attacking players.

 

[JimmyG2]

Lloris...........7.........Usual world classer but hardly troubled otherwise.Usual pressure balls out. Stoppit!
Walker.........7+.......Good again. Definitely thinking about crossing more quickly. Eights awaiting when you do Kyle.
Toby.............8+ .....Very good all round again. Accuracy of long passes very impressive.Sets the defensive standard .
Verts............7+.......Weak for Aaron's goal. Otherwise good against an alleged brilliant striker.
Davies..........7........Got forward well. Unlucky not to score. Delofeu caused him trouble but nothing fatal.
Dier...............7-......Only steady this week but did his job.
Carroll...........7+ ....Thought he played very well first half but then I like the boy.
Eriksen..........8-......Good performance and shouldn't have been subbed. Metronomic.
Alli.................8........Fine goal. Desire and movement damn good.
Lamela..........7-.......Not as influential as usual.
Kane..............6........Almost changed the game with a shot that denied the laws of physics to stay out.

Son................5........Plenty of motion but not a lot of notion.
Chadli............5........Poch's loyalty is admirable but not much justification yet.

Could have gone in 3-1 up. Even second half and could have gone either way. Good point to finish off the Xmas rush.
Subs ineffective again. First half was the Poch game plan at its best.Lovely stuff.

 

[Davo99]

Who the fuck voted Ben Davies?

 

[Chimbo1]

E

Excellent remarks and spot on with regards to Alli and Carroll

excellent post

 

[Gilzeanking]

First off , nice to see a football match concentrating on football . We see too many wars these days , Watford and West Brom recently where you play chicken with your career .

Obv great first half and a shame we didn't get the 3 points . Like many here I'm hoping that Kane (6) Dier(6) at least have a fortnight off.This knackered problem is staring us in the face . Poch (7) has often seen it before so must address it now . Minutes for Ryan and Nabil a must vs Leicester .

Lordy what has happened to Son (5) He started the season like a whirlwind .Returning from injury maybe or lost his nerve ? .
Start him vs Leicester imo and try and get him back to that early season peak .

Everytime I see the Everton goal , Verts (7) shy away looks worse . He does this a lot I've noticed . Its a weakness in a top defender .

Agree with gen view that Poch's subs were very poor , he seemed to weaken us , bringing on non performers .

Anyway good Xmas season , I'm looking for rest and rotation for Leicester .

 

[Shea]

What I think yesterday showed was our squad depth is not up to scratch

We were so much better than Everton - as we have been many teams this year - but tired greatly and lost our way in the latter stages of the second half

I agree with everyone saying Poch's subs were wrong and contributed to our loss of momentum

However - looking at the bench and our squad in general you can see that there aren't too many obvious alternatives to the subs he made that we can say with any certainty would have performed better

Son is supposed to be the man with pace who can get behind a defense and offer a goal threat, on paper he was the right man to bring on. He just didn't perform at all. Without Clinton who else offered us pace and attacking intent off the bench? Chadli?

Well Chadli was the second man on - strong and capable of making things happen.....he just showed nothing, like Son. Again on paper he'd probably be the right man to bring on but as with Son and as so often in recent times he did nothing to justify bringing him on.

Maybe young Onomah could have come on earlier, Maybe Bentaleb should have come on to steady the midfield - but we were clearly going for the win and I think most people would have looked to shake things up in the final third to try and make something happen and turn 1 point in to the 3 we so clearly deserved

We simple have no one to cover Kane and we lack any real options in the final third.

For all the positive signs (there are now many) we do need at least another two options going forward. Cover for Kane and someone who can do something from one of those 3 attacking forward positions (be that get in the box and score himself, get behind defenses or simply be the link between midfield and attack so that Kane is not starved of actual carved out good scoring opportunities)

 

[Japhet]

Alli MOM for me. Alderweireld is so much better than I thought he'd be.

Anyone still think Son or Chadli can fill in for Kane?

Thought Besic made a big difference when he came on. Wouldn't mind him in a Spurs shirt.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

What I think yesterday showed was our squad depth is not up to scratch

We were so much better than Everton - as we have been many teams this year - but tired greatly and lost our way in the latter stages of the second half

I agree with everyone saying Poch's subs were wrong and contributed to our loss of momentum

However - looking at the bench and our squad in general you can see that there aren't too many obvious alternatives to the subs he made that we can say with any certainty would have performed better

Son is supposed to be the man with pace who can get behind a defense and offer a goal threat, on paper he was the right man to bring on. He just didn't perform at all. Without Clinton who else offered us pace and attacking intent off the bench? Chadli?

Well Chadli was the second man on - strong and capable of making things happen.....he just showed nothing, like Son. Again on paper he'd probably be the right man to bring on but as with Son and as so often in recent times he did nothing to justify bringing him on.

Maybe young Onomah could have come on earlier, Maybe Bentaleb should have come on to steady the midfield - but we were clearly going for the win and I think most people would have looked to shake things up in the final third to try and make something happen and turn 1 point in to the 3 we so clearly deserved

We simple have no one to cover Kane and we lack any real options in the final third.

For all the positive signs (there are now many) we do need at least another two options going forward. Cover for Kane and someone who can do something from one of those 3 attacking forward positions (be that get in the box and score himself, get behind defenses or simply be the link between midfield and attack so that Kane is not starved of actual carved out good scoring opportunities)

There were decent options on our bench, but Pochettino's in game tactical reading of the situation invariably fails to make the best use of them.

Martinez (who was already playing a 433) strengthened his midfield three by putting Besic on, and pushing Berkeley up. Thus making both lines more tenacious and robust. Pochettino responded by taking our second best player off, effectively the player who had been playing as our "3rd" midfielder and put Son on. He could have taken Alli or Lamela off and either put Bentaleb or Onomah on and matched up Martinez 3 man midfield, or if he wanted Son on, take Alli or Lamela off pushing Eriksen back (which he was doing anyway) to help the out gunned 2 cm's or even take Kane off, pushing Alli up front and Eriksen back central. At the very worst a straight swap Eriksen for Onomah would have at least meant a more like for like.

Basicaly Pochettino responded to Martinez's changes by doing what Martinez had done the first half which helped give us total control of the game.

For the second game running we lost control of the midfield and effectively the game because of Pochettino's poor tactical in game reading. And both games we ended up rather fortunate to get points out of games we'd dominated for an hour.

 

[mpickard2087]

There were decent options on our bench, but Pochettino's in game tactical reading of the situation invariably fails to make the best use of them.

Martinez (who was already playing a 433) strengthened his midfield three by putting Besic on, and pushing Berkeley up. Thus making both lines more tenacious and robust. Pochettino responded by taking our second best player off, effectively the player who had been playing as our "3rd" midfielder and put Son on. He could have taken Alli or Lamela off and either put Bentaleb or Onomah on and matched up Martinez 3 man midfield, or if he wanted Son on, take Alli or Lamela off pushing Eriksen back (which he was doing anyway) to help the out gunned 2 cm's or even take Kane off, pushing Alli up front and Eriksen back central. At the very worst a straight swap Eriksen for Onomah would have at least meant a more like for like.

Basicaly Pochettino responded to Martinez's changes by doing what Martinez had done the first half which helped give us total control of the game.

For the second game running we lost control of the midfield and effectively the game because of Pochettino's poor tactical in game reading. And both games we ended up rather fortunate to get points out of games we'd dominated for an hour.

Agreed. As I said in my post last night, how I interpreted it was that Martinez gave up trying to 'outfootball' us and play a possession based game and switched to try and make the end of the game an open, counter attacking where they may be able to snatch it. Deulofeu came on and did no tracking back, and Barkley barely did any when he was pushed up. The objective seemed clear. What we did with the subs, who are lazier with and without the ball and really extra attackers rather than midfielders, aided their objective.

 

[Supersi32]

Vertonghen: 8 - Lukaku barely had a sniff all game. Maybe criticised for losing the header for their goal.

And turning his back on Lennon's strike, not the first time he's done this either.

 

[Bulletspur]

Bang on about the subs, for me the obvious changes were Bentaleb for Dier - who completely lost his way and I'd of given Chadli a go up top and brought off kane with 20 minutes to go or so.

Was very surprised to see Eriksen come off because he raised his level today, no doubt about it.

.

Using subs is Poch's weakest attribute IMO, something I have always said since he joined us. I get the impression at times that Poch before the game has even started, had already made up his mind about who is going to be subbed and who is coming on, irrespective of how the game is panning out.