Ratings Vs West Ham

MOM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 78 17.1%
  • Naughton

    Votes: 4 0.9%
  • Kaboul

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Dier

    Votes: 321 70.4%
  • Rose

    Votes: 3 0.7%
  • Capoue

    Votes: 25 5.5%
  • Bentaleb

    Votes: 12 2.6%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Erikssen

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Lennon

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Adebayor

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Townsend

    Votes: 5 1.1%
  • Holtby

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Kane

    Votes: 2 0.4%

  • Total voters
    456

nssmuckers

Active Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
284
Bentaleb wasn't our best player, but he was a hell of a lot better than a lot of people here are capable of admitting.

I feel like he could surpass Zidane and there would still be a sect of people who can't get over the "Sherwood's pet" idea.

He is no longer being judged as a 19 year old who until last season hadn't played a minute of first-team football at any level. That is a testament to how comfortable he looks in this league.

He is one of the best talents of his age group in the league, and hopefully he gets plenty of games this year. And not just throwaway Europa League bullshit in Kerplackistan; he is ready to progress in the Premier League.
 

Spurger King

can't smile without glue
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
40,910
I'm finding it really comical reading through comments on this game, especially on the match thread. The blistering rage vented at half time when we were a man down, followed by the resignation and bitterness throughout the second half, miraculously transformed into admiration for everyone as a result of a winner crafted by a substitute and scored by a defender.

Everyone seems to be getting an extra 1.5 points because we won. It's all absolute bullshit. We were very, very bad. It was the antithesis of everything that Pochettino is supposedly instilling in the team, from about the 14th minute right through to the point at which Collins got sent off, and it improved only slightly thereafter.

Unlike most people here, a shit performance doesn't transform itself in my memory into a good performance just because we won. I recall what I actually saw, not how I felt when Dier's goal went in.

It was garbage. The main issue was the fabled pressing high up the pitch: no one did it. Just no one. It never happened. The whole strategy depends on winning the ball high up the pitch and no one even tried.

The second issue was the way in which our attacking play closely resembled everything that was sterile and grim about our play under AVB. Lots of precise passing with no great attacking intent, followed by a vertical pass to a man who loses the ball. Last season we would have advanced to the edge of the penalty area and pissed around making horizontal passes for 45 seconds before losing the ball. Today we never got as far as the edge of the box.

The defence wasn't actually that bad, despite Naughton's attempt to wave at the crowd. Dier looked mature and composed. Kaboul combined generally good play with several specific incidents when he lost concentration and got the wrong side of his man or lost the ball in a sensitive area - it was a classic fan-adverse display, combining inconspicuous good play with highly visible howlers. Rose was facing a fired-up Downing and got fried quite often in the first 30 minutes, but still managed to prevent Downing from actually producing anything most of the time.

But if this season is going to be 'we've got our Tottenham back', then it isn't going to look anything like today. Today's football was just as congested, inhibited and unfocused as the worst of what we saw under AVB last autumn. And, like AVB's team last autumn, we squeaked a narrow win against an inferior team.

Individuals:

Lloris 7 Excellent when called upon as usual.

Naughton 5 Not bad until the incident, which deserved a penalty, but not a sending off.

Dier 8 Was going to get a 7 anyway for being mature and commanding, then gets an extra point as a result of the goal. Classy debut in every way.

Kaboul 5.5 Generally good work, let down by several serious lapses of concentration, strength and technique.

Rose 6 Given a very hard time by Downing in the first half, got a grip after half time and looked good going forward.

Capoue 6 Started well, but let West Ham, especially Noble, progrssively get control of midfield as the game proceeded. Stuck in defence for much of the game, where he acquitted himself without embarrassment.

Bentaleb 6 The opposite of Capoue: relatively un-influential until Collins was sent off, then took up a more advanced role and looked a good player.

Lamela 5 Just like last season: ineffective and easily bullied; disappointing. He tried, but nothing came off.

Eriksen 5 Uninfluential and pallid.

Lennon 5.5 Worked hard, but stuck tracking back for the central hour of the game, until after Collins was sent off. One good attacking move and a shot.

Adebayor 5.5 Lumbering performance. Always available for the ball, but nothing came off whenever he got it.


Holtby 6 Bustled about effectively, but no creativity.

Kane 7 A footballer with a brain who understands how to weight a through pass.

Townsend 6.5 Looked way more threatening than Lennon and, although I was concerned about his lack of defensive cover, it didn't prove to be a problem.
It was very much what I was expecting, so I don't really agree with either the enthusiasm or negativity being shown on here. In general the performances were far from great, but this is a group of players that (for the most part) have gone from Harry's open, expressive but vague instructions, to AVB's suffocatingly deliberated micro-tactics, followed by Sherwood's wild stabs in the dark. Pochettino was always going to have a lot of work to do in order to adjust these players to his approach, and a few pre-season games was never going to suffice. It will take several more games before we see real signs of what he's trying to implement, because he's working with a group of players that have really been put through the tactical mill.

Therefore it's no great surprise to me that the newbie had the best game. He wasn't shackled by any preconceptions of how we play, and was able to concentrate on what he was asked to (as well as being better placed to go with his own instincts in a way that proved to be crucial).

There's going to be a period of adjustment of far greater difficulty than that experienced when AVB took over from Harry, for the very simple reason that AVB was tasked with fine-tuning a group of players that were already very comfortable with how they were playing, whereas Pochettino has to work with a team that has been all over the place for the last 12 months or so (Pochettino also took over a Southampton team that were already performing very well). Fortunately we have enough individual quality for that period of adjustment to not be too painful, but I wouldn't be expecting huge strides any time soon. The circumstances require patience, so I won't be dissecting the performances just yet.
 

whitelanefever

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
1,865
It was very much what I was expecting, so I don't really agree with either the enthusiasm or negativity being shown on here. In general the performances were far from great, but this is a group of players that (for the most part) have gone from Harry's open, expressive but vague instructions, to AVB's suffocatingly deliberated micro-tactics, followed by Sherwood's wild stabs in the dark. Pochettino was always going to have a lot of work to do in order to adjust these players to his approach, and a few pre-season games was never going to suffice. It will take several more games before we see real signs of what he's trying to implement, because he's working with a group of players that have really been put through the tactical mill.

Therefore it's no great surprise to me that the newbie had the best game. He wasn't shackled by any preconceptions of how we play, and was able to concentrate on what he was asked to (as well as being better placed to go with his own instincts in a way that proved to be crucial).

There's going to be a period of adjustment of far greater difficulty than that experienced when AVB took over from Harry, for the very simple reason that AVB was tasked with fine-tuning a group of players that were already very comfortable with how they were playing, whereas Pochettino has to work with a team that has been all over the place for the last 12 months or so (Pochettino also took over a Southampton team that were already performing very well). Fortunately we have enough individual quality for that period of adjustment to not be too painful, but I wouldn't be expecting huge strides any time soon. The circumstances require patience, so I won't be dissecting the performances just yet.
That's a great post Spurger
 

leffe186

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
5,040
Not seen anything of the game yet but the fact that people are talking of Loris as a contender for man of the match worries me.

Should I be worried?!
Dunno mate. I'm watching it for the first time right now, I'm up to 15 minutes and we're pissing it.
 

leffe186

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
5,040
What? West ham were not on top and dominating midfield before the pen and sending off? Ok mate you want to open your eyes from time to time
I'm watching it right now, we're up to 15 minutes, and we've been almost completely dominant.
 

leffe186

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Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
5,040
So far, first 20 minutes was pretty decent but very AVB - excellent possession, some nice attempts at attacking moves, some decent closing down, but barely a sniff of a chance. 70% possession at Upton Park in the first 20 minutes is just what you want. Then West Ham built up a head of steam for seven minutes, culminating in the sending-off.

I just think people are being excessively negative, having watched the first half-hour without any pre-conceptions and without having to watch 30 minutes of 10 vs 11 away from home against the team that is arguably most up for beating us at their place. We've been OK so far.
 

Flashspur

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2012
Messages
5,153
Lloris 8 - was there when needed and made some excellent saves
Naughton 6 - unlucky and wasn't doing too badly up to that point but took one for the team
Dier 8.5 - solid debut, ran all day, marshalled the defence despite Kaboul's mistakes and took his goal well MOM
Kaboul 5 - Very nervous, hesitated too much and made a number of poor decisions, looked shaky right through
Rose 7.5 - he was pretty good but had a tough afternoon as West Ham targeted his side and Downings runs put him under pressure. Cant see Davies taking his place on this form.
Capoue 7 - looked really good as CM in the first 15 minutes. Not as confident at CB but did the job required.
Bentaleb 6 - Disappointing. He lost the ball very often in first half and consistently misplaced passes. Improved in the second half. Will be under pressure when Paulinho and Dembele return.
Eriksen 5 - Poor game today. Wasn't able to produce much during the whole game. He needs to show up when we play the more robust teams.
Lamela 6 - Gave the ball away needlessly in the 1st half. But was the only one pressing from the front. Big Sam had two players on him most of the time which made it difficult.
Lennon 5.5 - contributed little again offensively.
Adebayor 4.5 - awful first touch and looked disinterested and should have been replaced earlier.

Townsend 6.5 - looked threatening when he came on. But he needs to get behind the defender and improve his crossing.
Holtby 6 - Did okay.
Kane 6.5 - Harry didn't set the world alight but played a beautiful pass to Dier for the goal.
 

Redfap

Active Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2011
Messages
557
This year I'm avoiding SC during the game. I haven't read the match thread but reading a few posts on here it appears to have been very negative.

Personally, and this is just my view, I thought it was a terrific win in difficult circumstances. It was a hostile start to the season, away to West Ham who had the wood over us last year, with some new signings eager to impress and a manager eager to prove he deserves the gig. I also feel we are a bit underdone, still learning and adapting under a new manager. I was always going to be happy with a point from this one.

What impressed me the most was the way we simply hung in there. Sure, we were out played in the first half, even before going to ten men, but unlike many times last year, we stuck it out, kept our heads held high and battled through. We did enough to keep a clean sheet with Lloris in typically enigmatic form. We started to control the game in the 2nd half even before Collins was correctly sent off. We didn't back away and hope for a draw we pushed them right to the end and got a result via a great team goal. Kane's clever little ball to a fantastic effort by Dier. A defender rounding the keeper, very nice!

I would also like to add that the 3 a day training sessions must have worked because we looked fit and finished strongly against a tiring west Ham, despite playing more than 60mins with just 10 men. I think we might score a lot of goals in the 80min+ range this season.

All in all, it was for mine, always a very tough fixture and to keep a clean sheet and get the points was a great effort.

COYS
 
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spud

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2003
Messages
4,123
I see that somebody has given Rose a MoM vote. Must be a closet West Ham fan. Rose made Downing look world class. I may have missed one, but I can't recall him stopping a single cross, or forcing Downing to backtrack and lay the ball off. Still, at least he was in position today; although I don't suppose it matters if all he is going to do is give a passable impression of being a hologram.
 

dondo

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Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
4,506
You need to as well, open your eyes that is. If the others were doing their job as well as Capoue was doing his, we would not have been dominated. Hello Bentaleb!, Hello Lennon!, Hello Erikssen!
Yes the players you mentioned were poor too I never said they wasn't but capoue was still poor and part of the reason we were so bad in the 1st half
 

Gilzeanking

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 7, 2005
Messages
4,589
Firstly , a great feeling to win . We're all fans and the thrill of that winning goal is what we live for...wonderful.

However , as some of the more grounded posters here have noticed , chance is a very underestimated factor and surviving a pen and many other solid goalscoring opportunities for the Spammers involved a shedload of luck for us .

The first 15 mins was ok (tho no chances were created by us) but then , by anyone's measure we were truly battered til the pen . We couldn't get a head onto their crosses that were sailing in (our full backs ??) . The repeat viewers here could possibly work out Dier's (7)part in this dealing-with-crosses failure ,I couldn't say if he was at fault with his marking etc.

So weird that the pen miss/going down to 10 men seemed to stem the fury of the Spammer attacks , mebbe they thought 'We've got this' and relaxed . Good fortune stayed with us thankfully .

Lamela (5.5) . Not sure I've seen a more one footed player in our colours . This is a tragic problem for a close control dribbler . The defenders stand in front of him and a little to the left , they know he has to go that way , it makes him very predictable and blunts his effectiveness. As his trainer I'd force him to do an extra hour after training working exclusively on right foot use . Always baffles me that these multimillionaires won't work on truly obvious flaws like this .Its just sodding practice . Too comfortable I suppose . Two footedness was everywhere when I played at a way lower level ...its so fucking basic :banghead: Lamela has balance and intelligence ,what a waste that he's SO predictable .

Thought it was telling that Kane (7) got the sub nod ahead of Soldado . Why people think Soldado is going to suddenly play much better than last season I don't fully understand . Right decision by Poch (6.5)

Eriksen (5.5) seemed to have no appetite for the game . I find this worrying . The prem seems a little physical for him sometimes . He's very talented but no battler .

Lloris MoM (8)

Hopefully Poch can establish some more coherence in our play and pressing . He'll have learned a lot from this match.
ATM it doesn't look a whole lot different to last season . Go Poch :finger:
 

bigpalacios

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
1,878
LLoris - Is the fucking man

Naughton- Tried to impersonate Lloris

Kaboul- Shocking

Danny Dyer-Proper naughty little geezer

Rose- Ok, lets crosses get in too easily

Capoue- Did his best once shifted to cb

Bentaleb- Started to look decent once it was 10 v 10.

Eriksen- Poor

Lamela- Still not happening for him but it will come.

Lennon- Wasnt in the game

Adebayor- Didnt look fit.

Townsend- Had a positive impact on the game

Holtby - Busy

Kane- Lovely assist.

Tony Gale- Twat
 
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Joined
May 5, 2004
Messages
18,749
Dunno if it matters but someone on a Yid Facebook group translated a Danish interview with Eriksen post-match where he says that the West Ham pitch was bone dry and bobbly and that he and the other players were surprised at how badly it was playing, and they struggled to put together their passing game. Just the sort of tactic Big Sam loves to try and unsettle us with.

You put that together with being down to 10 for an hour, let's cut them some slack and wait and see what they serve up in the next one.
 

kitchen

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Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Messages
1,981
There's no taking away from the fact that that was a poor performance from us. We defended reasonably well, but West Ham didn't take their chances, and when ours came Eric stepped up.

We didn't keep possession well, we didn't press well, and we only created about one good goalscoring opportunity in 90 minutes. A draw would have been a fair result.

The silver lining for me is that, worse opposition or not, our pre-season performances were much better. We saw the high press, we saw the quick one-touch passing, we carved the openings. We saw the system being implemented.

I'm not sure what happened yesterday. But I'll assume it was a blip rather than a step backwards, and I'm certain that the good performances are on their way. I'll happily take blips that have us leaving the game with 3 points!
 

ShayLaB

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Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
1,087
If Ade was as unwell over the summer as we gave been told it is not surprising how was off the pace.

I can understand why we didn't start with Kane (having an experienced player up front for an awkward away game) but the fact that Soldado didn't get a look in is very disappointing. It means we now have a third successive manager who doesn't seem to have full faith in him to perform in this league.

I know it's early but it's not a great sign.
 

Beni

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Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
4,402
I been saying all preseason soldado has been our best player and I think we saw that, fair enough he has been poor in front of goal but him with that AM 3 is a game changer.

The play, passing, tempo and performance of the AM 3 drastically improves when soldado is in there. Was shocked he didnt play.
Agreed, Adebayor likes to hold onto the ball (although he couldn't hold anything up yesterday) and this slows the play, where as Soldado likes to play one touch passes round the corner to get in behind.

Playing against a team like West Ham, who sit back, our play in the final 3rd needs to be quick to get in behind, and Soldado yesterday would have been best suited.
 
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