Ratings Vs West Ham

MOM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 78 17.1%
  • Naughton

    Votes: 4 0.9%
  • Kaboul

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Dier

    Votes: 321 70.4%
  • Rose

    Votes: 3 0.7%
  • Capoue

    Votes: 25 5.5%
  • Bentaleb

    Votes: 12 2.6%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Erikssen

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Lennon

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Adebayor

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Townsend

    Votes: 5 1.1%
  • Holtby

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Kane

    Votes: 2 0.4%

  • Total voters
    456

Spursidol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
12,636
First competitive match unde new manager Poch.

Most posters seem to agree we did not play that well - and a couple of passing stas bears that out Lamela 72% and Eriksen 74%, when both should be getting 90% or so, and both are 2 of our most creative and technically good players, so with results like those 'quelle surprise' .

The squad is still feeling its way unde Poch - and 4 WC players have yet to play unde Poch (Vertonghen, Paulhino, Dembele and Chadli) so it will take a few weeks to see how we do.

Too early yet to get wound up by individual perfomances being less good than we would hope for - just need points on the board at the moment and build from there.
 

THFCSPURS19

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
32,536
It was very much what I was expecting, so I don't really agree with either the enthusiasm or negativity being shown on here. In general the performances were far from great, but this is a group of players that (for the most part) have gone from Harry's open, expressive but vague instructions, to AVB's suffocatingly deliberated micro-tactics, followed by Sherwood's wild stabs in the dark. Pochettino was always going to have a lot of work to do in order to adjust these players to his approach, and a few pre-season games was never going to suffice. It will take several more games before we see real signs of what he's trying to implement, because he's working with a group of players that have really been put through the tactical mill.

Therefore it's no great surprise to me that the newbie had the best game. He wasn't shackled by any preconceptions of how we play, and was able to concentrate on what he was asked to (as well as being better placed to go with his own instincts in a way that proved to be crucial).

There's going to be a period of adjustment of far greater difficulty than that experienced when AVB took over from Harry, for the very simple reason that AVB was tasked with fine-tuning a group of players that were already very comfortable with how they were playing, whereas Pochettino has to work with a team that has been all over the place for the last 12 months or so (Pochettino also took over a Southampton team that were already performing very well). Fortunately we have enough individual quality for that period of adjustment to not be too painful, but I wouldn't be expecting huge strides any time soon. The circumstances require patience, so I won't be dissecting the performances just yet.
I don't always agree with you, but this is spot on SK (y)
 

DogsOfWar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
1,593
I been saying all preseason soldado has been our best player and I think we saw that, fair enough he has been poor in front of goal but him with that AM 3 is a game changer.

The play, passing, tempo and performance of the AM 3 drastically improves when soldado is in there. Was shocked he didnt play.
I agree but I think it makes sense to stick in the proverbial big man away from home to a typically physical fat sam team rather than Soldado.
But at home against most teams I would expect Soldado to be first choice.
 

eddiebailey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2004
Messages
6,848
I don't think Eriksen can start the next game. Been poor in preseason and was poor yesterday.
I was a but surprised he started this one, likewise Adebayor. But whereas with Adebayor it is, we hope, a fitness issue, I think the problem with Eriksen runs deeper. Eriksen was actually pretty hopeless under AVB; he blossomed under Sherwood because Tim freed him of responsibilities other than the responsibility for making things happen. This buggered our shape, but made us potent in the final third. That is not going to happen under Poch, and I am not sure Christian is yet a complete enough player to knuckle down to what is expected of him. In which case he might not justify his place in the team.
 
Last edited:

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
44,533
It was very much what I was expecting, so I don't really agree with either the enthusiasm or negativity being shown on here. In general the performances were far from great, but this is a group of players that (for the most part) have gone from Harry's open, expressive but vague instructions, to AVB's suffocatingly deliberated micro-tactics, followed by Sherwood's wild stabs in the dark. Pochettino was always going to have a lot of work to do in order to adjust these players to his approach, and a few pre-season games was never going to suffice. It will take several more games before we see real signs of what he's trying to implement, because he's working with a group of players that have really been put through the tactical mill.

Therefore it's no great surprise to me that the newbie had the best game. He wasn't shackled by any preconceptions of how we play, and was able to concentrate on what he was asked to (as well as being better placed to go with his own instincts in a way that proved to be crucial).

There's going to be a period of adjustment of far greater difficulty than that experienced when AVB took over from Harry, for the very simple reason that AVB was tasked with fine-tuning a group of players that were already very comfortable with how they were playing, whereas Pochettino has to work with a team that has been all over the place for the last 12 months or so (Pochettino also took over a Southampton team that were already performing very well). Fortunately we have enough individual quality for that period of adjustment to not be too painful, but I wouldn't be expecting huge strides any time soon. The circumstances require patience, so I won't be dissecting the performances just yet.
Top notch post mate, agree with every word.

Its going to be a gradual transformation not an instant one. That's what people are going to have to get their heads around. Once we get there it will be well worth the wait. Confident about that.

Still think we'll have enough to grind some decent results out in the interim to though.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
44,533
Dunno if it matters but someone on a Yid Facebook group translated a Danish interview with Eriksen post-match where he says that the West Ham pitch was bone dry and bobbly and that he and the other players were surprised at how badly it was playing, and they struggled to put together their passing game. Just the sort of tactic Big Sam loves to try and unsettle us with.

You put that together with being down to 10 for an hour, let's cut them some slack and wait and see what they serve up in the next one.
That's very interesting, could well explain why our passing and moving game was so subdued and supports the poor passing stats.
 

absolute bobbins

Vous Êtes Des Assassins
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
9,272
Lloris - 8
Naughton - 6 - Unlucky
Kaboul - 5 - Very poor
Dier - 8 - MOTM - Excellent debut, Dawson must be a little worried
Rose - 6 - Not great and had a lot of problems with Downing
Bentaleb - 6 - Slow
Capoue - 6 - Coped well with extra responsibilities after the red card
Lamela - 6 - flashes or brilliance but not enough yet
Eriksen - 6 - very slow
Lennon - 6 - not a bad performance by his standards
Ade - 5 - Better second half but he ran out of steam and had long phases of uselessness

Holtby - 6
Townsend - 7 - Changed things and was passing! The more he uses his brain the more I like him
Kane - 6
 

stevenqoz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
2,625
Lloris 8
Naughton 5
Kaboul 6
Dier 8
Rose 6
Eriksen 6
Capoue 7
Bentaleb 7
Lennon 5
Lamella 6
Ade 5

Townsend 7
Holtby 6.5
Kane 6
 

Bulletspur

The Reasonable Advocate
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
6,607
Thread starter #149
This year I'm avoiding SC during the game.
COYS
I usually put away my laptop and will only go on it at half time and when the match is finished. I don't understand how others can concentrate and watch the game properly while reading and typing. I am not that clever
 

Anurag Jo

Active Member
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
470
I usually put away my laptop and will only go on it at half time and when the match is finished. I don't understand how others can concentrate and watch the game properly while reading and typing. I am not that clever
Same here.
Also tweeting while watching is one of the hardest thing to do.Dont know how people manage it.
 

Bulletspur

The Reasonable Advocate
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
6,607
Thread starter #151
I will say that the differing views on here is a result of how we see the game when we comment. Some with their heads and some (like me) with their hearts. If I was to make my comments and observations with my head, I know I would most likely agree with most of the "negative and sensible" comments but that would be too depressing. From my heart a win for Spurs is a win no matter how it is achieved and the feel good factor of winning lasts longer then. I will deal with the sensible assessments when we lose!
 
Last edited:

DiscoD1882

SC Supporter
Joined
Mar 27, 2006
Messages
4,836
I usually put away my laptop and will only go on it at half time and when the match is finished. I don't understand how others can concentrate and watch the game properly while reading and typing. I am not that clever
They must have two screens as I tried this yesterday on a laptop. It doesn't work. And it's pretty toxic in spurs chat on match day.
 

ackie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Messages
6,096
It was very much what I was expecting, so I don't really agree with either the enthusiasm or negativity being shown on here. In general the performances were far from great, but this is a group of players that (for the most part) have gone from Harry's open, expressive but vague instructions, to AVB's suffocatingly deliberated micro-tactics, followed by Sherwood's wild stabs in the dark. Pochettino was always going to have a lot of work to do in order to adjust these players to his approach, and a few pre-season games was never going to suffice. It will take several more games before we see real signs of what he's trying to implement, because he's working with a group of players that have really been put through the tactical mill.

Therefore it's no great surprise to me that the newbie had the best game. He wasn't shackled by any preconceptions of how we play, and was able to concentrate on what he was asked to (as well as being better placed to go with his own instincts in a way that proved to be crucial).

There's going to be a period of adjustment of far greater difficulty than that experienced when AVB took over from Harry, for the very simple reason that AVB was tasked with fine-tuning a group of players that were already very comfortable with how they were playing, whereas Pochettino has to work with a team that has been all over the place for the last 12 months or so (Pochettino also took over a Southampton team that were already performing very well). Fortunately we have enough individual quality for that period of adjustment to not be too painful, but I wouldn't be expecting huge strides any time soon. The circumstances require patience, so I won't be dissecting the performances just yet.
Wise! Couldn't agree more!
I think that once the TW is closed and we have who we want, it could take a few games to start seeing MoPo football philosophy in our players!
There's definitely work to do though.
 

sloth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
8,993
Poch's come up against Fat Sam four times now and that was his first victory. I said in the pre-match thread that Allardyce tactics are the antidote to Poch's high-press, and unfortunately I think that was born out by what we saw in the match. Basically, if a team's prepared and practiced at lumping it forward, then the press often won't work, and in fact it can work against you, leaving your front four and even a CM moving up the pitch just as the balls being chipped over their heads for the on-rushing midfielders or wide-men to run onto. The fact that west Ham rehearse that way of playing relentlessly, Allardyce famously using analytics to get players into the right zones for the knock-downs or clearances that result, put the likes of Rose and Naughton under huge pressure, add to that a shaky performance from the captain and a novice CB partner and I think this was always going to be a harder match than people were imagining it was going to be.

Anyway, there is an antidote to the antidote and that's to keep the ball and use it well in their half of the pitch. For whatever reason we didn't manage to do it very well in the ten minute spell of first half West Ham pressure which led up to their penalty. It's early days so I don't see a lot of point criticising anyone unduly, but I don't think either Lamela or Eriksen look very comfortable against robust PL players, Lamela in particular needs to find a bit of dog, a bit of aggression when on the ball, which is also a familiar complaint made of Lennon and unfortunately one he lived up to again yesterday.

After all that the most important thing was to come away with a win. It wasn't pretty at times, but by and large we stood up to the West Ham barrage pretty well, and once they went down to ten, if there was to be a winner we were always the likeliest.

In summary then, a match against West Ham is never going to be good barometer of our progress under Pochettino, much less the first match in the PL after a shortened pre-season. Once we went down to 10 the chances of a point, much less all three, felt pretty remote, that we achieved the win must have been real morale booster, if can achieve another against QPR next week then we'll be in as good a place as realistically we could hope for ahead of the first big test of our credentials against Liverpool the week after.
 

walton

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Messages
1,464
Lloris 8 - was there when needed and made some excellent saves
Naughton 6 - unlucky and wasn't doing too badly up to that point but took one for the team
Dier 8.5 - solid debut, ran all day, marshalled the defence despite Kaboul's mistakes and took his goal well MOM
Kaboul 5 - Very nervous, hesitated too much and made a number of poor decisions, looked shaky right through
Rose 7.5 - he was pretty good but had a tough afternoon as West Ham targeted his side and Downings runs put him under pressure. Cant see Davies taking his place on this form.
Capoue 7 - looked really good as CM in the first 15 minutes. Not as confident at CB but did the job required.
Bentaleb 6 - Disappointing. He lost the ball very often in first half and consistently misplaced passes. Improved in the second half. Will be under pressure when Paulinho and Dembele return.
Eriksen 5 - Poor game today. Wasn't able to produce much during the whole game. He needs to show up when we play the more robust teams.
Lamela 6 - Gave the ball away needlessly in the 1st half. But was the only one pressing from the front. Big Sam had two players on him most of the time which made it difficult.
Lennon 5.5 - contributed little again offensively.
Adebayor 4.5 - awful first touch and looked disinterested and should have been replaced earlier.

Townsend 6.5 - looked threatening when he came on. But he needs to get behind the defender and improve his crossing.
Holtby 6 - Did okay.
Kane 6.5 - Harry didn't set the world alight but played a beautiful pass to Dier for the goal.
Just quoting your post as an example, but it typifies the bizarre backlash to the backlash against Danny Rose. If Davies won't be taking Rose's place based on the form he showed yesterday then he may as well hang up his boots. Downing absolutely schooled Rose, and when you get schooled by Stewart Downing, you know you're in trouble. The amount of space he was given every time he got the ball was criminal; inexcusable. He simply does not do the simple things, and more than anywhere on the pitch (gk excluded), this is a terminal flaw. The amount of folk referencing his attacking play speaks volumes.
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
10,896
Just quoting your post as an example, but it typifies the bizarre backlash to the backlash against Danny Rose. If Davies won't be taking Rose's place based on the form he showed yesterday then he may as well hang up his boots. Downing absolutely schooled Rose, and when you get schooled by Stewart Downing, you know you're in trouble...
Well, no, for a couple of reasons. First, Downing is vastly experienced and is a much better wide player than most here assume. He knows everything there is to know about finding space to deliver a cross and his crossing is his no. 1 asset.

Second, whilst you are correct that Downing gave Rose all kinds of trouble in the first half, Rose adjusted his game and closed off the supply after half time. Whether this was because Pochettino gave him some instructions or Rose just figured out some tricks on his own I don't know, but whatever it was, it worked. Downing got absolutely nowhere on the flanks after half time, even before Collins got sent off, and ended up cutting inside to shoot instead, eventually leading to their near-goal and Lloris' match-saving block just before the end.

So you're basically criticising Rose for learning from his mistakes and adjusting his game.
 

Shea

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2013
Messages
7,711
Lloris - 8
Naughton - 5
Dier - 8
Kaboul - 5
Rose - 5
Capoue - 6
Bentaleb - 6
Lamela - 6
Eriksen - 5
Lennon - 5
Adebayor - 5

Townsend - 7
Holtby - 7
Kane - 7


My standouts for the game are -
Lloris because he was the true match winner
Dier my MOM because his debut winning goal
Kane for his composed through ball for the winning goal
Holtby and Townsend for injecting some much needed fresh legs and both helping to turn the game in our favour


I expect to see a much improved performance at home next time out - West Ham were tricky opposition and they were up for the game fighting hard, being physical and keeping the game long ball dominate

I think our new and young unit struggled to control the game and some what reverted to type - next time out I think we'll be able to see a lot more of the preseason and training ground work and get a better idea of what we have in store for the future under Poch

I'd still like to see some new faces but I won't be too disappointed if we just leave the new man to work with what he has and make a more informed decision on the ins and outs he wants to build his squad in the Jan and next summer windows. This is going to be a slow process not an instant leap to success, but hopefully this time we'll build something that is sustainable and continues to progress

Watching a depleted Southampton team play at Anfield toward I was very impressed with their energy levels and team passing/sexy football skills - if we assume a decent amount of credit for this be afforded to Poch then I look forward to seeing what he can do with our current crop and what he can build with a few key signings to support his system and ideas for how we should be playing
 

walworthyid

David Ginola
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
5,387
Just quoting your post as an example, but it typifies the bizarre backlash to the backlash against Danny Rose. If Davies won't be taking Rose's place based on the form he showed yesterday then he may as well hang up his boots. Downing absolutely schooled Rose, and when you get schooled by Stewart Downing, you know you're in trouble. The amount of space he was given every time he got the ball was criminal; inexcusable. He simply does not do the simple things, and more than anywhere on the pitch (gk excluded), this is a terminal flaw. The amount of folk referencing his attacking play speaks volumes.
Spot on. He wasn't as awful as he was at times last season but as you say downing ruined him frequently. He basically crossed at will and rose did nothing to stop him. He also has an annoying habit of tucking in and leaving too much space outside him. It happened repeatedly, he would tuck in even though the ball was on that side and then he would rely on lennon to cover the threat.

I must be honest and say that I don't like him at all and really hope davies replaces him as soon as possible.
 

Sweech

Swiggity Swooty
Joined
Jun 27, 2013
Messages
5,752
Confused as to why some thought Rose had a good game.

To me it looked like Downing was allowed to do whatever he pleased out there.
 

spurs9

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
8,458
I been saying all preseason soldado has been our best player and I think we saw that, fair enough he has been poor in front of goal but him with that AM 3 is a game changer.

The play, passing, tempo and performance of the AM 3 drastically improves when soldado is in there. Was shocked he didnt play.
Also, I though Ade ruined our pressing game on quite a few occasions. A few times I saw Lamela, Lennon and Eriksen quickly close down passing options only for Ade not to close down the player with the ball and just jogged backwards, forcing Lamela, Lennon and Eriksen to retreat freeing up the options or giving the player on the ball all the time in the world to play a long pass.
 
Top