What went wrong vs West Ham?

[Beni]

Think Paulinho needs to be next to someone who sits, a Capoue or Sandro. I rate Dembele but for me, Paulinho is a better player. To get the best out of him, he needs a player that's defensively disciplined, which gives Paulinho the license to arrive late in the box and help our attacks and will score the odd goal.

 

[spurs-r-us]

On my other forum, not Spurs dedicated, someone made a very good point.

When has an AVB side ever looked dangerous from open play in the Premier League.

I'm starting to believe the inverted wingers are the problem. Get some direct pace in.

 

[spurs-r-us]

Think Paulinho needs to be next to someone who sits, a Capoue or Sandro. I rate Dembele but for me, Paulinho is a better player. To get the best out of him, he needs a player that's defensively disciplined, which gives Paulinho the license to arrive late in the box and help our attacks and will score the odd goal.

Agreed. Dembele plays too often, and is therefore never at 100%. At his best, he's a good tackler and a powerfully unique dribbler through the middle. Right now, he's playing alright, but he's doing a bit of a Jenas in that he isn't passing, tackling or scoring.

Mousa should be playing EL and LC for now, because he needs to get fit again and impose himself.

 

[Spurs_Q8]

Not sure over that debate .. 4-3-3 (Capoue/Sandro) or current 4-2-3-1 .. the plan worked well against Chelsea in 1st half.

in my point of view, We've large squad to deal with many players missing, we can see that Kaboul is yet to be fit, we lost Rose, Capoue & Lennon 1 for 1 month, the team is yet to get good result until yesterday.

it was really very good start the season, but there were some things noticed despite that !

• I think during most of AVB games, the team produced less performance in 2nd halfs, against Crystal Palace, Swansea, Cardiff, Chelsea and even against West Ham the team was OK in 1st half, but this 2nd half we paid the price. This could happened at Chelsea if Oscar scored that chance early in 1st half.
• It was the right call from AVB to award the player who is doing well, to play, specially in League games, that's why Lloris needed time to over-take Friedel place, and I expected to see Lamela need some time to take his place, Townsend did fair job against Arsenal when Lamela is just arrived, he is bid threat with his shots slightly improved.. BUT he can't use EPL games (specially THIS season) to develop him and treat him like that.. this raised to see him playing lonely, selfish and he may hurt team play, When you can see the statistics, he started 6 in EPL and scored nothing, just 1 assist, while Eriksen, Sigurdsson & Holtby produced more with less playing time (from those 3 positons who used behind the striker in 4-2-3-1 ) .. He might play good part to tire and worry opponents defenders, but part of AVB job to be brave enough to take him off or switch his position, not to destroy Lamela and cut his playing time, keep him on the bench and subs him on Eurapa League, then give him out of his best positions ( AM or RW ) for someone who can't produce things?
• Why relaying that much on Walker, why not to give him a rest like other people? we almost lose him against Villa (Captial One Cup) then he kept using him too in Eurapa League..

- against Chelsea, the substitutions where not right,bring in Chaldi on RW, who was not playing part from some time, when we needed Sandro or Lamela to put more pressure on the ball, as all Siggy, Eriksen or Twonsend were lost in 2nd half.
- yesterday i was washing taking Naughton off for Lamela, with Townsend as LB, Naughton did nothing both in defence and attacks.

This thread is ridiculous. WE'VE LOST 2 GAMES ALL SEASON!

Now most of you who were magically quiet before the game are saying AVB should have played Sandro or Lamela or Soldado blah blah blah. It's funny that I didn't read much discontent when the line up was announced.

We had a bad day at the office, it happens. It's happened to every big team through out the years but it's how we recover from it which will define our season. Losing one game doesn't advocate the raft of personnel and tactical changes that many of you are suggesting. Remember this is the same team that comprehensively out played Norwich, had the better of the first half versus Chelsea and has dominated almost every game this season.

Losing in a derby hurts but FFS some of the reactions on here are beyond laughable. Anyone would think we had started the season poorly.

This is very awful result, you can't see this?

embarrassment result at home, in natural conditions (not many key players missing, no early red card) , not 0-1 or 0-2, it's 0-3 !! and against Crap team and crap club..!

this might hit the team confidence so much.

 

[Flashspur]

we look turgid with AVB's tactical approach - either the players are not familiar with it or the players dont fit the system or the system is f*cked. Anyway back to the drawing board and I hope he doesnt come out with more lame excuses. You were done AVB admit it. Big Sam outfoxed you and after the first half you should have changed tactics and taken the initive instead it was same old same old with the same bleeding players. You could see it coming couldn't you - it was only a matter of time.

 

[TaoistMonkey]

What I think is AVB needs to be suspended in the air above the pitch so he can get a view like the rest of us and be an awesome manager.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Exactly!! hence why 4-3-3 and a high line doesnt work in the Prem, we need width width width!! the passing is way to slow with know end product!!

And yes im going to say it even tho ill get slaughtered, the H days were exciting, the team was exciting, counter attacking was electric..we now have better players, and im convinced we could be even more exciting if we abandon this philosophy of high line 4-3-3.

Lamela for what i have seen goes wandering, not his fault as hes playing in a 4-3-3..you cant have width with 3 up top if the full backs dont overlap, when they do it exposes us to a counter attack.

This result has been coming, Jose worked it out in the secound half, and im sure other managers will follow suit if we continue to play the way we are.

Finally i just hope AVB isnt stubborn and excepts he needs to change!!

We've been playing 4-2-3-1.

Dembele-Paulinho
Townsend-Eriksen-Sig

 

[Kirito]

We've well and truly crashed back down to earth.

We all laughed at Manu, Arsenal and Liverpool for their shock home results and this was our turn except we got fisted a little harder.

 

[dagraham]

For some reason, AVB seems to have allowed himself to let his formation get totally unbalanced.

For a start, there are the full-backs. Misfit mentions it, above, the FB's in AVB's system are supposed to offer the width, more like wing-backs, really, and the wide players of the three are supposed to cut in quite a bit. But, without Rose, Naughton isn't doing this and we would be better off with BAE. I still consider Walker to be a prospect, but he is peeing certain sections of the support right off - and with good reason.

Then there are the centre-backs. Sorry, AVB, Mickey D, but if the system hinges on a high line Daws just bluddy can't play it. I have always openly said that I love his blood-and-thunder heart and the fact that he plays with a smile on his face, but...FFS. And Vertonghen...did anyone notice his slight pulling down pulling down of the shorts for the third goal...what is that about. He got away with it today, but if he stumbles while doing it again he will be lifted by the vice squad.

But the real problem of balance is in the centre of midfield. AVB arrived with the legend that he played a midfield three, including a destroyer (Sandro/Capoue), and box-to-box player (Dembélé/Paulinho) and a creative (Ericksen/Holtby). He has the options for that, now, Sandro seems just about fit enough. And while it is nice having the option in extremis of playing combinations of the other four, for the sake of balance we need to play one of each if we can.

So. we have a lack of creativity from the wing-backs when the system depends on it. A central defender who can't play the high line (and having them was part of what did for AVB at Chelsea), and an in-balance in central midfield.

Also, to compound this, we just didn't seem at it, today - too many folk from fans through playing staff to coaching staff starting to believe the hype, IMHO.

Agree with every word of this but I'd also add a couple more things. I'll be accused of knee-jerking but for me we also don't have the right type of striker to fit the system in the PL.

I've been impressed with Soldado, he's clearly better than Defoe in almost all aspects of CF play and he can be successful in the PL but I have serious doubts that he will be successful in our current system. This is not Porto. The PL is different and playing up front on your own here requires both power and pace, or failing that an ability to create chances out of nothing for yourself ala Suarez or RVP.

I honestly believe Ade is key for Soldado to really shine which is a shame as a) Ade is never going to show the hunger an drive to force his way back in the team imo and b) AVB simply refuses to play two strikers. I'm not against the one up front system per se but we need a different type of striker if we're going to play it imo.

The other thing is we have no plan b, something which has prevented Arsenal winning trophies in recent years. One dimensional teams don't win anything i'm afraid and we need to be able to dominate possesion but also possess the ability to counter attack effectively when its needed and up the tempo when chasing the game.

 

[Spurs_Q8]

1)Siggy n defoe r too
inconsistent to start though
they make good squad
players.Siggy last season
scored only 3 last season n is
on off all season,look at his
performances at reading
swansea.Defoe has been at
the club for a decade but has
never been a regular n no top
club has asked for his
availability so he should just
shut up about his game time.
2)Eriksen has a tendency to go
offline during games or after
2-3 games so we need holtby
to start to keep him under
pressure.
3)Townsend has improved so
quick but we start defoe which
is ridiculous when we have a
proven Spanish striker in our
squad
4)10-12 points n we are in the
next stage of europa which we
can easily achieve by winning
home games so taking
dembele walker lloris soldado
to Russia is senseless.No
wonder walker looked
jaded.No guarantee we will win
that cup considering better
teams from the CL will drop in
so the Avb has to stop his
europa obsession

I think Chadli supposed to be our main LW, but his injury let Siggy take his place, and did well, scored 3 until now, top scorer, i think he is very good player, he can be threat outside the box, as the same as Eriksen, both can easily fill Bale rule last season as AM.

our concern is LW, i think Chaldi not good enough, hope i'm wrong but time will tell, Townsend is quicker than Lamela, but Lamela had better techinque on the the ball, so ideally Townsend should be LW as Bale rule in recent years apart from 2012-2013, while Lamela to be RW. We can see that Townsend is good to beat players but his crosses were poor. Towsend can be on right if Lamela need a rest.

This will sort things a lot upfront.

as for your point about Defoe over Soldado yesterday, I'm with that decision, because Soldado didn't do that much in recent games, so we needed to give Defoe a chance fair EPL time, and he didn't take it, so this failure yesterday may take some pressure on AVB why he is being to be bencher for EPL, he is just not up for it and most of his goals were against crap clubs.. he is good bencher IMO.

 

[Spursidol]

Hindsight is obviously your friend

No I said it last season too.

The fact of the matter is that AVB is relatively inexperienced :

1. This is the first club where he has managed for 2 successive seasons
2. His best known feat was to win EL and championship at Porto - well done but Portugese league is thin, after the top 6 sides the games are easy for a side like Porto. Therefore he didn't need to learn much about squad rotation, preparing for every game, changing tactics for each game, many things - in PL he's just learnt there are no easy games
3 He tries to set the team out in his standard way in many games - even when like West Ham he had players crucial to his system missing (i've focussed on te absent FB's - Walker being injured pre match - to support inverted wingers)

I could go on about evidence of hius flaws.

He is intelligent enough to learn from his mistakes - just hope he does and quickly, and that someone like Baldini can whisper in his ear...

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Let's all run down to the Lane and cut AvB's head off for being stubborn in his approach to the team selection?

Get a fucking grip lads.

We lost 3-0 at home due to bad team selection and formation selection. DEAL WITH IT. One loss does not derail a season.

AvB does however need to look at his choices and see his clear mistakes. Townsend is NOT good enough to be holding down the 1st team RW slot when we have Lamela to work into the team. I don't care who says what about Townsend He is a squad player to me and always will be. His performances these opening games have been poor and Lamela deserves that spot more. He has shown a lot of promise in EL/cup games and AvB needs to switch these two around.

Siggurdson is good enough to hold the Left wing position as his movements and goal scoring ability from many areas is a bonus to us. He is not Bale but he can play a similar role. Chadli and Siggy can share 1st team rotation though as I think they have equal ability even though they different style wingers.

Naughton is shit. End of. I'd rather we risk it with Vertonghen at LB and Chiriches in the Middle with Dawson/Kaboom than to use this piece of shit again. He is middle table quality and does not deserve the spot in our first team.

STOP playing two Box-to-Box midfielders and no holding midfielder with a high defensive line. THIS DOES NOT WORK. In order to be effective a high line defense strategy needs a holding midfielder to shield the defense on the counter and to help with other defensive and offensive areas. Sandro is perfect for this role. Always has been. I'm truly shocked he hasn't had a first team appearance yet but I can see him getting a lot of game time for the rest of the season. Pair him with either Dembele/Pauli I don't give a shit. Just put him in the first team squad.

Eriksen, Siggurdson and Soldado have formed a triangle of attacking understanding between each other. Just because Defoe has scored in EL does NOT mean he is good enough to start in the PL yet. He got cocky with his performances, earned a 1st team starting spot and fluffed it. Soldado atleast adds to our team dimension and for fuck sake HE WILL SCORE!!!!! Just give him time. Everyone here is writing off players based on a poor tactical approach to the game. If we had gone with:

Walker Dawson Chiriches Vertonghen​

Sandro Paulinho​

Eriksen​

Lamela Soldado Siggurdson​

​

​

We would not have lost this game. But shit happens and life goes on. Looking forward to the team selection for the Villa game.​

​

COYS​

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[SlunkSoma]

*raises head and takes a quick look around.........

I see the knees haven't stopped jerking yet.

*Puts tin helmet back on and slides back to the bottom of the trench

Its not a kneejerk to be bitterly disappointed by this. This is embarrassing, and I don't even work with any West Ham fans. Its a poor result caused by some bonkers decisions. Sure its not like we are getting relegated, but its a massive blow at an important time in the season.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Its not a kneejerk to be bitterly disappointed by this. This is embarrassing, and I don't even work with any West Ham fans. Its a poor result caused by some bonkers decisions. Sure its not like we are getting relegated, but its a massive blow at an important time in the season.

There's a fuckoff great big difference between expressing disappointment and posting a stream of utter drivel.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Walker Dawson Chiriches Vertonghen​

Sandro Paulinho​

Eriksen​

Lamela Soldado Siggurdson​

​

​

We would not have lost this game. But shit happens and life goes on. Looking forward to the team selection for the Villa game.

COYS

​

Comments like this make me laugh. So what you're saying is if AVB let you pick the side then we definitely wouldn't have lost the match? WOW.

 

[stevenqoz]

A problem for us is that the team is / was unbalanced. Left side we have Naughton barely able to play the position let alone support anyone and Siggy is playing wide left but is unsuited...slow...can't dribble and providing no alternative to Townsend who is ripping it on the right. To get the balance we either need to play Chadli on the left or switch the left footed Townsend and give Lamela a start. This is a set back but the main lesson to learn is that if you play anyone....especially other London teams without passion and adrenalin you will lose. The most telling stat for me was the fact there were only 12 fouls comitted in the whole match. WTF.....this was a derby. Success is within reach of our club but AVB must encourage them to get their hands / legs dirty and fight when necessary.....

 

[Vulcan10]

Not worded the best as no one knows what would have happened but that's actually quite an interesting team. Last season at upton park AVB went with verbs at lb to play the extra centre half to cover their threat at set plays. It was one of the things we all like about him that he is such a meticulous thinking manager. That's why his admission that they prepared for the game on Sunday morning was such a shock and he may have been referring to himself & the coaches when he said it was a wake up call. I think AVB is still finding out a lot about his new players which is why his subs/decisions don't look as impressive yet as last season. I'm sure all will come good over time.

 

[robbiedee]

Also, to compound this, we just didn't seem at it, today - too many folk from fans through playing staff to coaching staff starting to believe the hype, IMHO.

That is so me that is! I fell right into that trap. Even when Chuck D and Flavor Flav came round my house and told me not to.

Agree with everything else you say too...AVB needs to start making the right calls and playing the right formation with the right players.

International breaks are shit.

 

[SteveH]

I truly believe there was a great deal of complacency around yesterday 'we drew with chelsea bla bla' - to that end they ALL may have learned a very valuable lesson.
You can tell the newer player to the team "you cant underestimate the lower team when playing in the EPL" till you're blue in the face, I would imagine. But sometimes the only way the truly take it on board is when they experience the feeling of humiliation and heartache I hope they are all feeling today.

Daws should know better - but I think he will reflect that if you sit back on your laurels (new contract etc) be careful you don't get a brach stuck up your arse.

 

[dagraham]

I truly believe there was a great deal of complacency around yesterday 'we drew with chelsea bla bla' - to that end they ALL may have learned a very valuable lesson.
You can tell the newer player to the team "you cant underestimate the lower team when playing in the EPL" till you're blue in the face, I would imagine. But sometimes the only way the truly take it on board is when they experience the feeling of humiliation and heartache I hope they are all feeling today.

Daws should know better - but I think he will reflect that if you sit back on your laurels (new contract etc) be careful you don't get a brach stuck up your arse.

Your right, Daws should know better but I didn't see any complacency or lack of intensity from him yesterday. It was in midfield where we were truly feeble and played like we were on a Sunday kick about in the park.