Ratings vs Arsenal

Discussion in 'Spurs Chat' started by Bulletspur, Nov 18, 2017.

MOTM

  1. Lloris

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Sanchez

    223 vote(s)
    86.8%
  3. Dier

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Verts

    2 vote(s)
    0.8%
  5. Trippier

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Davies

    1 vote(s)
    0.4%
  7. Dembele

    2 vote(s)
    0.8%
  8. Sissoko

    21 vote(s)
    8.2%
  9. Dele

    2 vote(s)
    0.8%
  10. Eriksen

    3 vote(s)
    1.2%
  11. Kane

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. Winks

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. Son

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  14. Llorente

    1 vote(s)
    0.4%
  15. Poch

    2 vote(s)
    0.8%
  1. mpickard2087

    mpickard2087 Fantastic Member

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    Nah, it wasn't very good at all.

    I'm just going to recycle posts from during the game instead of writing something new. A shit show like that doesn't deserve much effort.

    First half was an omnishambles, how I saw it at half time:

    - first off, and a biggy, desire and intensity weren't there.
    - we cant keep the ball under pressure as they put the squeeze on. No options.
    - we are then playing some awful long balls forward that actually put us under pressure as they don't even reach our advanced players and land at their midfielders to spring an attack.
    - the defence has been very poor. They're not playing as a unit, no one is talking, no one is leading, no one is organising. Dier wants to drop, Vertonghen wants to step up, Sanchez does one thing then t'other. It's a fucking mess.
    - Our shape/compactness, and/or press has been so ragged.
    - That's yet another set piece goal conceded, and yet again Dier is man on the scene.
    - I think Hugo can do a bit better on both goals, positioning for the first, reactions for the second.
    - Apart from the briefest sporadic moments our attack has been non-existent. Alli has been disappointing, Eriksen cant get into the game.
    - But the main point is that we may as well have 10 men out there, as Kane is nowhere near it. He cant run.


    And then on top of all that, you've got a bit of bad luck with refereeing decisions thrown into the mix. But we only had ourselves to blame being in that situation, it wasn't good enough.

    The second half was a bit different. We had some respite because fairly early on they decided to shell and play on the counter so we were able to get up the pitch, but we still lacked any real threat and our use of the ball was throughout the game awful.

    Poch has yet again made a big call in regards to the fitness of players and it's backfired on him. They weren't the reason we lost, but it was like playing with 9 men as Alli and Kane just didn't/couldn't offer anything (particularly in movement on or off the ball, attack or defensive effort) and you aren't going to get away with carrying such obvious passengers in a big game.

    As for what we need to learn, and really improve on, from this game, I think its simple - pass and move. This was what I said after the game:

    A large part of the problem is that our pass and move still isn't at a standard it could be. Too many of our players are just not tuned to playing at one or two touch over and over and over, then as a collective our movement, playing little triangles etc, could be better. I don't need to name names, we have a lot of ability in the squad but we all know which players, and there's a few of them, that struggle to control a ball and need that extra touch or two (or three, four, five...) and enjoy holding onto the ball.

    People like myself often point out after matches when we see lots of this, when players are holding the ball too long, we're not moving the ball quick enough or linking that well in large parts of our general play - but then we usually play bus-parkers and do show enough quality moments to eventually win - and so other posters just go 'ffs stop being so negative, enjoy the win'... Well that's why I mention it, because we have to be better in the weaker games and have better standards. If we're a bit slow in those games, it will definitely get shown up in high intensity games where teams put the squeeze on us - and yet again a team that presses us, as today for the main part of the match, we cant handle and look lost.

    We've got to strive to pass and move better whoever we're playing.

    No more explanation needed.

    The only crumbs of comfort are that this got put back a week due to internationals, otherwise I'd have been subjected to that on my birthday... A lucky escape.

    Oh dear.


    Lloris - I think his positioning could be better for the first goal, you would hope he reacts a bit quicker for the second. The rap sheet in big games has grown..... Did make some good saves in the latter stages.

    Sanchez - Not a great first half. Did better in the second when his recovery pace came into play as they counter attacked.

    Dier - Needs some intensive work on defending set pieces, another goal conceded in this way where he is on the scene.

    Vertonghen - Worst game of the season by far, as part of a malfunctioning unit.

    Trippier - Meh.

    Sissoko - 10 for effort. Fuck off for everything else.

    Dembele - The clock is ticking....

    Davies - Meh.

    Eriksen - Subdued.

    Alli - Like playing with 10 men

    Kane - Like playing with 9 men

    Subs:
    Winks - Played some passes.
    Llorente - Won a header and created a chance. That this was an improvement says it all.
    Son - Wasted said chance.
     
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  2. JimmyG2

    JimmyG2 SC Supporter

    Messages:
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    Bad day at the office?
    More like: Explosion at the Chemical Works.

    Sanchez.......8....MOM. Led the firefighting team.
    Verts.............7....Turned up fully equipped at least.
    Sissoko.........6....Unfortunately at the very top of his ladder (sorry game)
    Lloris.............6....Leader of the rescue team but culpable for the second goal.
    The rest........A shambles. Like recruits in a burning building simulation.
    Many still missing.

    I feared the worst when I saw the midfield pairing.
    Pretty clear which of us was up for it.
    And it wasn't us.
    Could have been more
    and all the rest of the top six winning handsomely
    means the fire hoses were plugged into the emergency fuel tanks.
     
  3. Bulletspur

    Bulletspur The Reasonable Advocate

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    He was better than 90% of our players yet you picked him out to criticise. Just shows your bias
     
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  4. Lighty64

    Lighty64 Glory Glory

    Messages:
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    Dean gave them a foul that never was, that lead to their 1st goal. his Linesman missed 2 offsides that ended in goals, but one of the most annoying things that has really pissed me off today was Xakha. he wasn't booked for a foul that stopped us on the counter, then chopped Alli which was a definite yellow.

    all week everyone has bigged us up, saying we have turn the tables on them. it's been so bad that it totally fired them up. up to 1st goal they worked harder than us, but never once threatened our goal. in the 2nd half they could of had 2 or 3 more goals, hitting us on the counter. the big difference today was they wanted it, and worked a lot harder, and the ref that every gooner hates gifted them 2 goals.

    Sanchez was our best player today and didn't deserve to be on the losing side. our next best was Sissoko, but he wasn't that great when it came to his distribution which is pretty critical part of the game. the trouble today was just like most of our defeats the last few seasons, the other team have closed us down quicker than we did.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017
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  5. Gassin's finest

    Gassin's finest Donne moi la balle, et je fais le reste...

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    The team - Bollocks/10

    Yeah I'm drunk, and?
     
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  6. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    The Ghost of Shitmas Past

    That was a horrible throwback to life before Pochettino. It's been a while since we got out worked and out fought by an Arsenal team, and I sincerely hope it's a fucking kick up the arse wake up call to Pochettino and the players.

    Poch has to take a massive share of the blame for that debacle. I have no idea what his intentions were tactically, but whatever they were intended to be, what they turned out to be was perfect for Arsenal. Tactically we committed that ultimate of sins. Having no tactics.

    Just as we say sometimes how an opponent fuck up tactically against us by doing neither one thing nor tother, not sitting in and being hard to break down or pressing high and trying to compete, today that was us.

    The back three were given a torrid time for the first 45 minutes but they were just the poor suckers that carried can for the sloppy and lethargic shit that went on ahead of them. Alli sauntered around like a super star thinking all he had to do was fucking turn up, bumbled away what precious ball we got up top, and then couldn't be arsed to press it back. Kane's "Lovren Trick" is getting well fucking hackneyed now. Just show for it, challenge for it, win it and fucking hold it.

    I just don't get why, after cracking the counter attacking thing, Poch didn't get us playing the same way at the Emirates. Arsenal are the kind of side who only know one way of playing, why not just apply the Dortmund/RealM/Liverpool formula that had been so successful? If we are not going to do that then the very least we need to do is play a highish defensive line and then not pressurise them further up the pitch. What ended up happening was people like Ramsey and Ozil were given time and space to play passes in behind our full backs and CB's repeatedly.

    A handful of us had been flagging up our midfield as an area of concern for a couple of years. Pochettino had a chance to develop Onomah but demurred, failing that he needed to be bringing one or two cm's in. He did neither. As a result we are now seeing a real motley ensemble in what should be the area from which the game is controlled and tempo is set. It hasn't killed us in the more pragmatic and less expansive games, especially as we've had Winks in their to ping the ball forward on the counter. Today we had Brian the snail Dembele hobbling around on his zimmer instead of Winks and the game just zipped round him, with Sissoko working hard but offering nothing in terms of using the ball intelligently, or with reliable metronomicity - i.e. showing, moving, giving and getting and helping us get some kind of foothold and Eriksen getting the shit pressed out of him unable effect the game either. Winks made only a couple less passes in 30 minutes than the other three made in 60 (Dembele) and 90 (Eriksen/Sissoko).

    There were elements of fortune with both Arsenal's goals, the first was great bit of defending by Sanchez that was incorrectly penalised and there were slight offsides involved in both goals too, but to be honest, Arsenal made their luck by being better than us in every way for the first 45 minutes.

    The second half was a non event as Arsenal shelled and we huffed and puffed unimaginatively.

    Individual

    Lloris - I thought he was weak for the second, should have moved forward toward the ball no fallen backwards. Did make a couple of decent saves second half.

    Trippier - Put in a couple of decent crosses. Apart from that pretty ordinary.

    Dier/Vertonghen - Not great games, but largely paid the price for poor play ahead of them.

    Sanchez - I thought he was the only player to come out of today with any credit. Pace, composure in possession and can press and attack opponents too.

    Davies - Was exposed defensively but also allowed them to put crosses in too easily at times. Not a great game.

    Sissoko - You can't fault his effort, but he's not who you want in a midfield, where his technique just isn't good enough to be of much real use under pressure. There’s no wit or craft to anything he does, it’s all football by numbers. Chipped in with the obligatory charge upfield, but as ever fuck all came of it.

    Dembele - Time for the glue factory. The game just swirled round him. Made 5 more passes than Winks in 30 more minutes.

    Eriksen - Just plain poor. Worst game for a very long time. Combination of WC hangover and Arsenal’s pressing.

    Alli - Really fucking atrocious. Back to his worst. Inept, careless, playing for fouls when we really needed him to just show up, do some simple stuff well, help us get a foothold.

    Kane - Poor. If he's not fit then play Son up there and give him a rest.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
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  7. Sid Tottenham

    Sid Tottenham Active Member

    Messages:
    192
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    +476 / 6 / -21
    Mike dean mom for arse
    Again though there was things made out about him being s spurs fan blah blah we ain't ever getting fuck all from him again
    Although if anyone deserved to win it was them, draw might of been fairer idk think they shaded it with the help of that 1st goal which if didn't go in games different
     
  8. dannythomas

    dannythomas Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,226
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    +1,718 / 154 / -42

    Really excellent analysis BC. I too was at a loss to work out Poch’s game plan. Winks should have played from the start, Dembele is on a slow downward spiral and I’m sorry but Sissoko should not have been anywhere near our first choice. For those who say he was our second best player, the truth is that he performed to the maximum of his ability and was , just maybe . our second least bad player on the day , whatever good that is. Damning with faint praise as they say.

    FFS give Son a run of games as first choice . Not everything he does comes off, he missed a big chance to give us what I’m sure would have been a consolation goal only , but he doesn’t hide , he keeps looking for a way.. If that means benching Alli then do it. If Wanyama was fit then Alli should definitely make way . We miss Wanyama hugely but right now pulling Eriksen back and interchanging forward movement between him and Winks is our best midfield option. So Alli and Son should both play largely because we don’t have another option for Alli ( dare I say it Lamela ? ) unless we revert to 4 at the back. And unfortunately Dembele it seems no longer has it and Dier is for me a central defender first and foremost.
     
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  9. dannythomas

    dannythomas Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but we were shit , they were better and we got what we deserved. Trippier was offside when we scored against Real but we took it. Bad decision against Sanchez for the free kick but the way we played we would have lost anyway.
     
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  10. stevenqoz

    stevenqoz Well-Known Member

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    Well we lost to the noisy neighbours for the first time in a while. Clearly the injuries we had across the international break were probably legit. Kane and Alli way off their best only Sanchez and Sissoko coming thru with any credit. Times have changed. For years it was our guys that got up and put the pressure on a superior opponent but yesterday Arsenal did it, and did it very well. No complaints here with the result. We lost to a more motivated team Wenger winning the tactical battle and getting the best out of many of his previous underperformers....Ozil and Sanchez particularly impressive. One thing I will say is that while we don't want excuses there are few plausible explanations for what transpired. Eriksen had a wonderful week with Denmark but would have come back as flat as a tack...lacking adrenalin after scoring a hattrick to get his side to the WC Finals. Add this to the returning returning from injury players and we were definitely underdone. There is always a silver lining in a North London derby defeat and paradoxically, once again it is 'Wenger in week' and we all know what that can bring[​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
  11. whitesocks

    whitesocks Well-Known Member

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    True and when you read of what Southgate did to Phil Jones to get him on the pitch against the Germans (6 injections of pain killers), Winks, Kane and Alli would have got the same treatment if they weren't genuinely quite badly injured.
    But it is only our own fault if we have a weak bench. Where are the 2017/18 new academy kids, straining at the leash?
     
  12. Cravenspurs

    Cravenspurs Well-Known Member

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    I see the masses are starting to see what @Bus-Conductor and others like myself have been on with Dembele that past couple seasons. Can keep the ball from group of dogs, but can’t pick a pass or move the ball around like a CM should. Also didn’t show for the ball at all , for the majority of the game
     
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  13. elDiablo

    elDiablo SC Supporter

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    Yeah and what really pisses me off is that whole "power shift" narrative was created by the media yet us more pragmatic fans will jave to listen tonthe scum fans crowing about it over the next few weeks
     
  14. Gilzeanking

    Gilzeanking Well-Known Member

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    It was similar vs Palace . This thread was packed with result raters , that poor performance was ignored even by BC .

    I was firmly told that that was how great teams win the league...ie play shit and win 1-0 vs the bottom clubs !

    Anyway this time , the problems seem to be clearer for everyone . The team heard the roaring Arse fans , felt the motivated Arse tackles flying in and thought....' Nah , don't fancy it ' .

    Amazing to see that from a Poch team , we're not used to it anymore , we recognise it from old alright, but are in disbelief when seeing it again , especially in an NLD .
     
  15. Sophos151

    Sophos151 Active Member

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    +480 / 11 / -4
    No, not at all. He had some poor first touches that completely killed whatever momentum the passing move had, and his passes to Trippier were horrific - either way too far ahead of him, or killing his momentum by being played behind him.
     
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  16. Wheeler Dealer

    Wheeler Dealer Well-Known Member

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    Alli was abject in all areas. His ball retention is shocking not only yesterday but in most games.
     
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  17. Shadydan

    Shadydan Well-Known Member

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    He had 2 bad passes to Trippier, 1 where Trippier pointed to where he wanted the ball then stopped and that other was off target, if you're nailing his overall performance on those minimal details then you have an agenda.
     
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  18. Francis Gibbs

    Francis Gibbs Well-Known Member

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    Sanchez motm by a distance the rest were quite frankly pathetic for a NLD.

    Oh and I am sick to death of Alli strolling around like billy big bollocks and doing feck all.
     
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  19. Sophos151

    Sophos151 Active Member

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    As well as those balls out of play, there was also a raft of passes played behind Trippier. Then there was a counterattack he snuffed out by overrunning it when there was a simple pass on to Winks (I think it was Winks). And a few times when he took a heavy touch that forced him to turn and play it backwards.
     
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  20. BringBack_leGin

    BringBack_leGin I BELIEVE

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    I genuinely think the formation is part of the problem. What should be a 343 has become a 361/ 541 as we’ve ended up defending deeper, getting the ball back deeper, then Eriksen and Dele get drawn into the midfield and Kane is left isolated. I actually think with Wanyama out this formation can’t be viable long term as he’s the only player we have who wins the ball high up the pitch.

    At least with 4231 the emphasis is on keeping the ball with the four attacks, we have more than just the fullbacks to give width and the double pivot is more clearly defined and therefore easier to implement.

    Don’t get me wrong, those individual performances would have outdone and tactical plan, but we’ve abandoned a formation completely it seems which actually works pretty well for us.

    I want to see all of Eriksen, Dele and Son begins Kane, with Dier as a sitter and Winks a metronome in midfield. I want our high press back. I want some attacking football.
     

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