Roberto Soldado

[ButchCassidy]

Vucinic, Arshavin, Rossi, Forlan, Suarez, Moutinho, Hazard, Villa....

Not all of those players have gone on to be the successes they may have promised to be when we were linked with them, but all of them were players I wanted us to sign that we supposedly had a realistic chance of getting. I'm not saying we fucked up the chance to get them, but for whatever reason we couldn't see the deals over the line.

I couldn't care less about Talksport, Sky Sports News, or random Nigerian newspaper reports. I'm just recognising the patterns that suggest we won't do whatever is required to bring in Soldado. It's a form of self-preservation by giving up on it.

Look it's been two days since we were strongly linked to Soldado. Outside of deadline day I can't remember the last time we completed a deal in two days. Or the last time a team accepted our first bid for a player without triggering a release clause. Negotiation is part of the game, and the only reason this feels like another failure is because we've had two months worth of news in about 36 hours. We don't usually hear about every step of the negotiating process and it makes it sound like this transfer has been hugely protracted, when in reality we probably go through something like this on most of our successful transfers. Vertonghen, Lloris, Ade, even our first bid for Chadli was rejected.

 

[Spurger King]

Look it's been two days since we were strongly linked to Soldado. Outside of deadline day I can't remember the last time we completed a deal in two days. Or the last time a team accepted our first bid for a player without triggering a release clause. Negotiation is part of the game, and the only reason this feels like another failure is because we've had two months worth of news in about 36 hours. We don't usually hear about every step of the negotiating process and it makes it sound like this transfer has been hugely protracted, when in reality we probably go through something like this on most of our successful transfers. Vertonghen, Lloris, Ade, even our first bid for Chadli was rejected.

The one that really fucks me off is the Bony to Swansea deal. I'm blaming our scouts for that one. He'll be fantastic next season and will probably end up somewhere a season later for £20m+.

Fair points on the transfer process though. Hopefully it's not over just yet. Completely different sums of money though compared to the transfers you've mentioned.

 

[arunspurs]

The one that really fucks me off is the Bony to Swansea deal. I'm blaming our scouts for that one. He'll be fantastic next season and will probably end up somewhere a season later for £20m+.

Fair points on the transfer process though. Hopefully it's not over just yet. Completely different sums of money though compared to the transfers you've mentioned.

Dutch league srikers are always difficult to assess - While in a normal season, where we have nothing to loose such a gamble would be worth taking. Bu given we are in a crucial season, in terms of clubs (stadium) future, we have to take a measured approach. It is very evident that club is willing to spend the money on new no9, provided he deal makes sense. What if we buy Bony & turn out not bete than Ade or Defoe.
Swansea club are on a high and they have got no much to loose - so bidding on a talent like him makes sense. I think we are goin after proven talent - either Soldado who has had great 5 seasons with Valencia or Benteke (who had a good year at PL level).

From what AVB said, its clear we will get a no9. What we have to do is get a no9 who is beter than the current sriker duo.

I just hope we somehow finalise Soldado.

Getting Soldado head of Liverpool could be difference between Winning title(yes I am talking about PL title) & loosing CL spot to Arsenal/Liverpool.

 

[ButchCassidy]

Ok, I did some Googling on whats the fuss about the Taxes.
It looks like, under law, if there is release clause and is met, there is ZERO tax involved - no VAT , no Income tax - becuase such a transaction is viewed as a compensation.

Below is snippet from one of the article written during Javie Matinez 40m transfer from Bilbao to Bayern last summer.

Now you will know why Valencia wants us to meet the clause desperately - to avoid paying taxes.....
This is google translation from Spanish article ....




Neither VAT or income tax, there are 40 million. The transaction is exempt from tax under the rules
Today could be the day Wednesday definitive case is resolved Javi Martinez and his move to Bayern officially a reality. Except swing, the player's representatives and lawyers have been at Bayern come to the seat of the LFP (Spanish FA) to unlock and resolve the situation.
Yesterday, the chairman of the Supervisory Board of the Bavarian club, Karl Heinz Rummenigge, said that the 40 million to buy the player were prepared but specified that "termination clauses that have all the Spanish players are structured in a way so complicated, it might create some problems in the legal and tax aspects. "

Sources close to the LFP, the operation of Javi Martinez is tax exempt and has no VAT or income tax, so if Bayern deposited 40 million will be paid into the account of the Athletic and process the Player tab. Three key points of this negotiation.

1 Who pays the 40 million, Bayern or the player?
According to the Statute of the FIFA player of Article 17. 2, the clause must be paid by the player and his new club together. There is no obligation to enter the new money club the player and whoever he cleared payment.
2nd Why the transaction is exempt from VAT?
10 years ago, when the transfer of Ronaldo from Inter to Real Madrid , the Liga de Fútbol Profesional made ​​an inquiry to the Treasury about it and the answer is binding specified that payment of the clause was exempt from this tax because it was considered compensatory in nature.
3rd why the transaction is exempt from tax the income tax?
Based on article Players' Status, will Bayern which, together with the player, make payment of the clause, so there is a payment of one club to another club, Bayern Athletic, two legal entities. There is no individual involved.
The personal income tax applies only to individuals, so it has no reason to be here.

To date, at all times when in Spanish football has paid a termination clause has never been taxed any tax, but simply paid the amount specified in the contract between the player and the club concerned.
Treasury has not yet claimed never regard.

The last case was that of Ayala, the Argentine Central happened to Zaragoza Villarreal payment of 6 million.

Interesting. Sounds like at the moment we want to pay about £24m, which Valencia would take, but because it would be taxed the total would only come out to maybe £18m. On the other hand if we go up to £26m and hit the buyout clause, they pay no taxes which is a substantial difference for them. The FM solution would be to loan them some youth player or Simon Dawkins for a year and charge a £2m loan fee .

 

[voxy28]

Interesting. Sounds like at the moment we want to pay about £24m, which Valencia would take, but because it would be taxed the total would only come out to maybe £18m. On the other hand if we go up to £26m and hit the buyout clause, they pay no taxes which is a substantial difference for them. The FM solution would be to loan them some youth player or Simon Dawkins for a year and charge a £2m loan fee .

We should loan them Coultrist, Falque and Caroll at 1M ea.

 

[Yid]

Interesting. Sounds like at the moment we want to pay about £24m, which Valencia would take, but because it would be taxed the total would only come out to maybe £18m. On the other hand if we go up to £26m and hit the buyout clause, they pay no taxes which is a substantial difference for them. The FM solution would be to loan them some youth player or Simon Dawkins for a year and charge a £2m loan fee .

1 Who pays the 40 million, Bayern or the player?
According to the Statute of the FIFA player of Article 17. 2, the clause must be paid by the player and his new club together. There is no obligation to enter the new money club the player and whoever he cleared payment.

3rd why the transaction is exempt from tax the income tax?
Based on article Players' Status, will Bayern which, together with the player, make payment of the clause, so there is a payment of one club to another club, Bayern Athletic, two legal entities. There is no individual involved.
The personal income tax applies only to individuals, so it has no reason to be here.

This is a bit confusing, because the aforesaid Items 1 and 3 are contradictory in terms. Item 1 states the clause must be paid by the player (and his new club together), but Item 3 claims the transaction is between the clubs, therefore individual tax doesn't apply.
The terminology at the very least is pretty obscure, if not contradictory altogether, but then again "legalese" is intended to confuse , so I don't why I'm surprised.

 

[ButchCassidy]

1 Who pays the 40 million, Bayern or the player?
According to the Statute of the FIFA player of Article 17. 2, the clause must be paid by the player and his new club together. There is no obligation to enter the new money club the player and whoever he cleared payment.

3rd why the transaction is exempt from tax the income tax?
Based on article Players' Status, will Bayern which, together with the player, make payment of the clause, so there is a payment of one club to another club, Bayern Athletic, two legal entities. There is no individual involved.
The personal income tax applies only to individuals, so it has no reason to be here.

This is a bit confusing, because the aforesaid Items 1 and 3 are contradictory in terms. Item 1 states the clause must be paid by the player (and his new club together), but Item 3 claims the transaction is between the clubs, therefore individual tax doesn't apply.
The terminology at the very least is pretty obscure, if not contradictory altogether, but then again "legalese" is intended to confuse , so I don't why I'm surprised.

It's also translated from Spanish, which doesn't help.

 

[arunspurs]

Interesting. Sounds like at the moment we want to pay about £24m, which Valencia would take, but because it would be taxed the total would only come out to maybe £18m. On the other hand if we go up to £26m and hit the buyout clause, they pay no taxes which is a substantial difference for them. The FM solution would be to loan them some youth player or Simon Dawkins for a year and charge a £2m loan fee .

Unfortunately that won't work. Simply because Soldado release clause contract is his alone. I don't think it could be coupled with any one else.

 

[Stoof]

That tax decision sounds awfully odd. Surely it's simply a sale/purchase? It's not a payment of "damages"?

You'd have to assume both buyer and seller are VAT registered. So therefore account for VAT in the usual way?

Odd.

 

[arunspurs]

1 Who pays the 40 million, Bayern or the player?
According to the Statute of the FIFA player of Article 17. 2, the clause must be paid by the player and his new club together. There is no obligation to enter the new money club the player and whoever he cleared payment.

3rd why the transaction is exempt from tax the income tax?
Based on article Players' Status, will Bayern which, together with the player, make payment of the clause, so there is a payment of one club to another club, Bayern Athletic, two legal entities. There is no individual involved.
The personal income tax applies only to individuals, so it has no reason to be here.

This is a bit confusing, because the aforesaid Items 1 and 3 are contradictory in terms. Item 1 states the clause must be paid by the player (and his new club together), but Item 3 claims the transaction is between the clubs, therefore individual tax doesn't apply.
The terminology at the very least is pretty obscure, if not contradictory altogether, but then again "legalese" is intended to confuse , so I don't why I'm surprised.

First is for VAT tax and 3rd is for Personal Income tax

 

[arunspurs]

That tax decision sounds awfully odd. Surely it's simply a sale/purchase? It's not a payment of "damages"?

You'd have to assume both buyer and seller are VAT registered. So therefore account for VAT in the usual way?

Odd.

As odd it may sound, it was first exploited by Real Madrid in Ronaldo transaction - Perez is a tax evading scumbag. No wonder Messi tried similar tricks & failed.

 

[ButchCassidy]

Unfortunately that won't work. Simply because Soldado release clause contract is his alone. I don't think it could be coupled with any one else.

That's fine, we'll pay his release clause, but we make back the difference when by charging them £2m for a player we don't need. They get £24m tax free and we pay the price we want.

 

[seanyboy]

Can't just have him sign a new contract with Valencia with a lower release clause then have us pay that...? The law sounds like . I don't understand how a bid meeting the clause should be treated differently by tax authorities than one that doesn't.

 

[sbrustad]

That's fine, we'll pay his release clause, but we make back the difference when by charging them £2m for a player we don't need. They get £24m tax free and we pay the price we want.

I thought activating the clause meant we are the ones having to pay the tax instead of the selling club.

I am pretty sure I read something about that in this very thread yesterday, but the info may of course be incorrect.

 

[matthew.absurdum]

Is a player thread in transfer rumours with 163 pages a new record in SC?

 

[Nerine]

So today is the day we get Soldado then...

Excellent.

*drums fingers*

 

[Cavehillspur]

My concern is the scousers, just want us to push this through. Apparently reports in Spain suggest we're only 2mil euro off so hopefully we can get it done.

 

[Legend10]

Maybe we've been coming at this from the wrong angle, Valencia want to play hardball so perhaps we should be sending Sandro to do the negotiating!

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

Come on guys. I want at least another 90 pages today.


I wonder, of some one were to say, break James McCarthy's leg, would Levy suddenly spend more on Soldado?
We keep hearing rumours we have a fee agreed for him and that is pretty big.
Could you imagine missing out on our world class striker because of Mccarthy?

Anyone in the North West any time soon?

 

[Nerine]

If we signed McCarthy instead of Soldado, I cannot even begin to imagine the extreme levels of pure vitriol that would spew out of these threads.