The let's not fire our manager thread

[Gbspurs]

Sup, I'm on Skype and I have had half a shandy. Come get some.

 

[jambreck]

I followed his theory to its logical conclusion. Then concluded that everything was relative.

Generally or specially?

 

[roosh]

I followed his theory to its logical conclusion. Then concluded that everything was relative.

relative to my cock!

(which makes everything seem bigger!)

do I have to say something relative to the thread (puninteded- the first one wasn't, the second one was when I realised it)

let'sgive any manager 7yrs, even if it's pardew (the song would write itself), bcos that's what we need more than anything else; a manager with a vision (we could always break the bank for Pep, win the CL, and live off that for the next 80rs - tbh, I'd be on for that - or we could give AVB a chance.....let's break the bank!

or not


we all know what's gonna happen, Pep is gonna take over from "the registered offender" and we'll be sacking managers.

 

[Kingstheman]

Generally or specially?

Generally. I wasn't ready for the next step.

 

[jambreck]

Generally. I wasn't ready for the next step.

Good man.

It gives your thoughts a certain gravity, I think.

 

[spud]

have the most successful teams of the last 28yrs had a continuity of manager?

Continuity of management is important, but - like the fabled 'consistency' that teams aim for - it's only half of the story.

Many teams are consistent: consistently bad or consistently average. What is required is to be consistently good or consistently successful. Similarly, success usually only comes when a club sticks with a manager - but that manager has to be a good one. There is no point in managerial continuity if the man at the helm can't deliver what is needed. The question is therefore not whether the club should stick with AVB; of course it should, if he can deliver what is required. The question is whether he is the right man. I think that he is, but we will only know in the fulness of time.

fuck the gooners; yes they've been better than us - in certain respects, but cab we please stop judging ourselves against them - they will probably win the CL before - but let's just realise how far we've come.

We have to judge ourselves against them, especially if we are considering the PL era. In the early nineties the clubs were generally on a par. They had achieved greater success on the pitch but we had won a cup and finished high in the league. We were far ahead of them commercially. Since then our fortunes have diverged, only recently - on the field at least - becoming comparable again. So, coming from a similar starting point, we have to judge our success, first and foremost, against theirs.

We also have to judge us against them as they are our greatest rivals. Man City judge themselves against Man Utd. Sheffield United against Sheffield Wednesday, Birmingham against Aston Villa, Everton against Liverpool etc. So no matter how far we progress, the first yardstick will always be how we compare to them.

EDIT: having read the rest of the thread since posting, I think that the above may be a little too serious. Oh well.....

 

[Flashspur]

Agree - every team needs a benchmark and why not the Gooners. They have made Top 4 a staple every season. We should be aiming for the same. They have done that playing fairly attractive football. Why shouldn't we aim for that?

I think AVB stays but he should not be above criticism and he must learn that its part and parcel fo the game. The critics should be driving him to achieve more and if those critics are your customers, how much better can that be? Your getting feedback from the people who ultimately pay your wages.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

EDIT: having read the rest of the thread since posting, I think that the above may be a little too serious. Oh well.....

Don't beat yourself up about it, you're new to the thread and it'll take time for you to settle in. However, seeing as you've been a member of SC since 2003 I think you might have had a bit of an easy ride and perhaps slipped under the radar a bit. SC expects you to start being much more entertaining with your posts. Being right or wrong doesn't matter as long as you do it the SC way. Posting is about glory and all that. And if you could crouch whilst posting so much the better, but please do it in way that doesn't make it look like you're having a tom tit.

So pull yourself together or we'll find someone who can.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Fuck sake. How long until our next match?

 

[jambreck]

Fuck sake. How long until our next match?

Depends whether you're on a moving train or standing on the platform.

I'm sorry.....that joke is only relatively funny.

 

[SpursManChris]

I said something similar when Hoddle, Jol and Harry was sacked. Yet the club continued to improve during that period.

We've continued to improve since Harry left?

 

[Kingstheman]

Depends whether you're on a moving train or standing on the platform.

I'm sorry.....that joke is only relatively funny.

Schrödinger's cat says that I may laugh.

 

[roosh]

Continuity of management is important, but - like the fabled 'consistency' that teams aim for - it's only half of the story.

Many teams are consistent: consistently bad or consistently average. What is required is to be consistently good or consistently successful. Similarly, success usually only comes when a club sticks with a manager - but that manager has to be a good one. There is no point in managerial continuity if the man at the helm can't deliver what is needed. The question is therefore not whether the club should stick with AVB; of course it should, if he can deliver what is required. The question is whether he is the right man. I think that he is, but we will only know in the fulness of time.


We have to judge ourselves against them, especially if we are considering the PL era. In the early nineties the clubs were generally on a par. They had achieved greater success on the pitch but we had won a cup and finished high in the league. We were far ahead of them commercially. Since then our fortunes have diverged, only recently - on the field at least - becoming comparable again. So, coming from a similar starting point, we have to judge our success, first and foremost, against theirs.

We also have to judge us against them as they are our greatest rivals. Man City judge themselves against Man Utd. Sheffield United against Sheffield Wednesday, Birmingham against Aston Villa, Everton against Liverpool etc. So no matter how far we progress, the first yardstick will always be how we compare to them.

EDIT: having read the rest of the thread since posting, I think that the above may be a little too serious. Oh well.....

not too serious, just serious enough.

I agree, in principle, with what you say, but our success can only be judged against the goals we set for ourselves. If we measure ourselves against those more successful than us, then we will always be failures, and we will think there is something wrong with where we are. We are where we are but we can strive to be better.

<insert a motivational speech here>

que sera sera, I'm drunk, but we will forever be in their shadow if we choose to be in their shadow and measure ourselves against them - banter is fine, but when it comes down to it....I'm still kinda drunk and nothing I say will make the blindest bit of difference.


Tottenham when I'm dead!

 

[JimmyG2]

Problem is that unless you give a manager 4/5 years
how do you know whether he might have become successful?
Wenger became manager at Arsenal at the end of 1996.
Since then we have had 10 managers.
Our most successful before AVB, who is currently our top ranked manager
was Harry who stayed 3yrs which is double the average life of our managers in that time.
Unless the manager is clearly incompetent or mentally unstable which I don't think AVB is,
or is convicted on drug, sex or financial fraud grounds
he should be allowed to get on with job with guidance of course from interested parties
which he is free to ignore.

 

[dontcallme]

Problem is that unless you give a manager 4/5 years
how do you know whether he might have become successful?
Wenger became manager at Arsenal at the end of 1996.
Since then we have had 10 managers.
Our most successful before AVB, who is currently our top ranked manager
was Harry who stayed 3yrs which is double the average life of our managers in that time.
Unless the manager is clearly incompetent or mentally unstable which I don't think AVB is,
or is convicted on drug, sex or financial fraud grounds
he should be allowed to get on with job with guidance of course from interested parties
which he is free to ignore.

Going by that logic Arsenal should have kept Bruce Rioch and they would never have got Wenger.

 

[CowInAComa]

Problem is that unless you give a manager 4/5 years
how do you know whether he might have become successful?
Wenger became manager at Arsenal at the end of 1996.
Since then we have had 10 managers.
Our most successful before AVB, who is currently our top ranked manager
was Harry who stayed 3yrs which is double the average life of our managers in that time.
Unless the manager is clearly incompetent or mentally unstable which I don't think AVB is,
or is convicted on drug, sex or financial fraud grounds
he should be allowed to get on with job with guidance of course from interested parties
which he is free to ignore.

Which of gross, santini, graham, ramos or Jol would you have liked to have been in charge for the last 15 years?

 

[JimmyG2]

Which of gross, santini, graham, ramos or Jol would you have liked to have been in charge for the last 15 years?

Who's to say?
What am I Mystic Meg?
Hoddle was probably sacked too early, Ramos who knows,
I didn't say 15 years in any case. 4/5 was my measure.
I don't have to quote the early years of Fergie do I?
Bloody things stuck in italic now.
Nurse, Nurse!

 

[dontcallme]

Who's to say?
What am I Mystic Meg?
Hoddle was probably sacked too early, Ramos who knows,
I didn't say 15 years in any case. 4/5 was my measure.
I don't have to quote the early years of Fergie do I?
Bloody things stuck in italic now.
Nurse, Nurse!

There are cases like Fergie which backs up the thought that managers need time.

But there are also many cases of managers failing then continuing to fail who should have been sacked before it was too late.

You have to do it on a case by case basis. Simply saying give the manager time is not always the right answer though in the case of AVB I believe it is.

 

[Flashspur]

I think SAF and Wenger are oddities and we wont see the likes of them again....most managers struggle with consistency.

 

[Montasura]

relative to my cock!

(which makes everything seem bigger!)

do I have to say something relative to the thread (puninteded- the first one wasn't, the second one was when I realised it)

let'sgive any manager 7yrs, even if it's pardew (the song would write itself), bcos that's what we need more than anything else; a manager with a vision (we could always break the bank for Pep, win the CL, and live off that for the next 80rs - tbh, I'd be on for that - or we could give AVB a chance.....let's break the bank!

or not


we all know what's gonna happen, Pep is gonna take over from "the registered offender" and we'll be sacking managers.

I just heard a strange popping sound in my head after trying to read and understand this for the fifth time.

Can we also have a like for like negativity thread?

Best we make an "on the fence" thread as well for us undecideds.

Talking of crouching while posting, I realised a long time ago that my best posts happen at the same time as I'm sitting curling one out. And who says men can't multitask?