Dimitar Berbatov (Transfer Completed)

[Liamstamb]

I could write a nice little explanation which would fit the facts and it would prove absolutely nothing. I could produce examples of why I'm right and LL's wrong until the cows come home and I'd prove absolutely nothing except that I'm good at making up reasons and creating scenarios to prove I'm right. That's why I just offered my opinion.

If you want a bone to chew on however, first ask yourself what you want to be true, second ask yourself what other prejudices you might hold, then try and find our why you might be wrong, and then try and find reasons why the other guy might be right and finally let your conclusion flow from that. Follow that method religiously and you won't go far wrong.

Ok lets hear them and see which sound more realistic.I'm pretty confident your argument, for berbatov deliberately playing badly for a sustained period of time will be off.But lets see.

Care to share?

 

[Liamstamb]

Mil1lion



Berbatov was excellent after Ramos came, before that he scored 2 goals for 3 months, hardly an excellent form. It was a bad period for him that came immediately after Levy stopped him for manyoo.

He wasn't scoring loads but he was still playing as well as usual,setting up assits holding the ball up,keeping possession.It was the fuck ups Robinson,Dawson,Kaboom,Chimbonda Zokora and Huddlestone who were the problem not Berbatov.

 

[mil1lion]

Mil1lion

No, but i know that we turned down a bid of around £24m out of hand from AC Milan. ie We wouldn't even negotiate, which says that we're after a lot more. Its also widely suggested that we told Chelsea £40m as a hands off message a few months back. And yes, i know Man Utd wont pay £30m plus on a 27 year old (Rooney an Rio?)

Err, you don't know it unless you take some ITKs reports as the gospel. OK I'm no ITK myself so thats all i have to go on. However, it works the other way aswell. We dont know that the club will accept £25m either.

We know he isn't worth £30m plus, but we have all the cards in our hands. He's on a long term contract and we dont have to sell. Because the Webster clause exists only in players' imagination and isn't a part of the rules. No, it isn't effective in this case. He's too old and we have an option to extend his contract, which would make it invalid anyway. Do you not think the club are aware of the Webster Clause? If not, then why are they coming out saying that he is under a long term contract, and why would we risk not selling him in this window by holding out for big money?

Unconvincing. The fact is Berbatov would have completed 3 years at Spurs after next season which allows him to buy out the contract. The option for 2 years extension, if it exists, is a part of the old contract and its triggering does not create a new contract. The club is aware of that and this may be one of the main reasons why it would sell. But the club aren't willing to sell. Otherwise we'd have negotiated the prospect of the transfer by now. The club are well aware of the Webster Clause in this case, yet are under no pressure to sell him. That suggests to me that the Webster Clause will not be in affect.

The reason we haven't come out and said he's not for sale, is because Berbatov wants to move to a bigger club if they come in for him. So we put a hefty value over him instead. Its another way of saying that he's not for sale, but saying to Berbatov that we'll sell if someone comes in with the money. It's another way to say that he is stupid and cannot see what every ordinary fan on SC is capable of. ??The only time we'll sell for around £25m, will be next summer.

You think Berbatov cannot get that there is little or no difference between declaring he is not for sale and pricing him out of the market? Of course, but theres not much he can do if we put a high price on his head. He knows we have overvalued him, yet we have done what his agent wants by putting a price on his head. We're the ones who determine his value, not him or his agent. We dont need to sell.

I'm betting that Levy would rather sell Berbatov for £20m next summer than £30m this summer. He knows that this season is our best yet, to qualify for the Champions League. We need Berbatov to do that. Because you know he is going to play at his best even if Levy forced him to stay for a second time. Exactly like he played at his best when after the first 3 months last season we were in the relegation zone. Yes. He was one of our best players last season. He wasn't at his best at times that the rest of the team were poor. Coincidence? No. He is a forward, and we failed last season because of our aweful defending and lack of balance in midfield. Keane and Berbatov were both excellent last season. So if we make the Champions League, then that £10m wont matter. If we dont make the Champions League this season, then we'll definately sell him. We'll still drive a hard bargain, and sell for nearer £25m, knowing that he'd still have 3 years on his contract.

Berbatov was excellent after Ramos came, before that he scored 2 goals for 3 months, hardly an excellent form. It was a bad period for him that came immediately after Levy stopped him for manyoo. Levy stopped him going to Man Utd last summer? You know this was the case? We played badly for the first couple of months last season, not just Berbatov. Berbatov was not great during the 1st few months for the season before that either. I have seen no evidence that he plays badly because he he wants to move. He's a professional and he is still one of our best performers. If not, then we wouldn't even have the prospect of Man utd trying to sign him for £20m plus.

If Berbatov was so desperate for a move then why have we not heard it from him?

 

[Kendall]

There is not a chance in hell that the webster clause will be triggered so I wish people would stop mentioning it.

 

[hughy]

What illegal contact have United made with Berbatov and how have United stirred the situation up in the press? United have made a bid and that's it for now. :-|

No more than 2 months ago, United were claiming Real had made an illegal approach for Ronaldo. And of course they've stirred the Berbatov situation up with that article they posted on their official site re. Berbatov.


':-|'!!

 

[deathtoarsenal]

United have always been ****s when it comes to transfers. They wheel away, leaking shit to the press, tapping playersup but all the while cry blue murder when it happens back to them.

I really, really hope that Ronaldo goes to Real. Just for the look on drunk Alex's face. I'm sure the United fans would think about protesting outside the ground but it's a long journey from London/Shanghai.

Why would Ferguson have any 'look on his face' if Ronaldo was sold? It's not as if he's going to be let go without Ferguson's approval you idiot.

And why would United fans protest over the sale if it went through? Many United fans would gladly see him sold now for acting like a ****.

 

[deathtoarsenal]

No more than 2 months ago, United were claiming Real had made an illegal approach for Ronaldo. And of course they've stirred the Berbatov situation up with that article they posted on their official site re. Berbatov.


':-|'!!

Real haven't stopped mouthing off about Ronaldo in the press which has no similarity to anything that's happened so far with United and Berbatov. United have made a bid - like it or not - and the transfer story has been covered on the official site. Do you expect the official site not to bother running a transfer story like this when it's already been in all the papers?!

 

[degoose]

ok here we go

this is from the sun

MANCHESTER UNITED tabled an official £20million bid for Tottenham strike star Dimitar Berbatov last night.
And Alex Ferguson expects to wrap up the deal within the next week after making his opening offer.

The United boss is in the market for a proven Premier League goalscorer to play alongside Wayne Rooney next season.
Berbatov has been top of Fergie’s wanted list all year and now he has turned his interest into a hard cash bid.
United are convinced they can lure the Bulgarian to Old Trafford with the promise of Champions League football and an £80,000- a-week pay packet.

Berbatov, 27, is keen to move on to bigger things after two years at White Hart Lane.

He was a £10.9m signing from Bayer Leverkusen in 2006 and has scored 46 goals in two seasons with Spurs.
But he fell out with Martin Jol last season and has failed to impress new boss Juande Ramos with his attitude.
Spurs chairman Daniel Levy slapped a £30m price tag on Berbatov when Fergie and United came sniffing in the January window.

But Ramos has already splashed more than £50m this year on Luka Modric, Jonathan Woodgate, Alan Hutton, Heurelho Gomes, Giovani Dos Santos, Chris Gunter, Gilberto and John Bostock.
And Spurs need funds to finance their £11m move for Espanyol striker Luis Garcia.

They will try to prise a few more million out of United before finally agreeing to sell fans’ favourite Berbatov.
But Ramos has given his blessing.
Emil Dantchev, Berbatov’s agent, said: “I cannot make any comment until there is official confirmation from Tottenham or United.”

the really annoying thing and this is why i dont buy newspapers is that there is only one quote in the entire thing and that from berbatovs agent and it doesnt confirm a bid.

Great article isnt it

 

[sloth]

Ok lets hear them and see which sound more realistic.I'm pretty confident your argument, for berbatov deliberately playing badly for a sustained period of time will be off.But lets see.

Care to share?

Have you ever done a job when you'd have rather been somewhere else? How much enthusiasm did you have for it?

Have you ever been in a relationship when whatever the feeling you had in the first place drains away and then felt stuck and resentful?

Have you ever had an ambition, a dream you've always wanted to fulfil and found someone block it, get in the way, prevent you from realising it?

Have you ever done a job which you absolutely love, where the boss is great and you want to go in every day?

Have you ever been (are you) in a relationship where you love your partner, think they're great and you're lucky to have them?

Have you ever achieved a target, reached a goal and felt that deep sense of satisfaction?

Now think about the difference between each state.

Shouldn't the players have played just as well after we exited the UEFA Cup as we did before? Shouldn't they have professional pride? Shouldn't they have loved the game they're being paid to play just as much afterwards as before?

Motivation's a funny thing and we're all different and respond in different ways to different stimulations, perhaps Berbatov will take our refusal to sell him to Man Utd in his stride, perhaps he's not even bothered about going to Man U, perhaps he'll take it in a positive fashion and go out and play the season of his life to earn his move. Perhaps all these things and I can't know if they won't happen, but if I were Levy (or if I just do it as exercise in "what would i do?) I'd weigh up what i know of Berbatov, the kind of character he is and how human nature is and I'd be very reluctant to take a £15m gamble plus risk CL qualification based on a load of rose-tinted perhaps'.

But like i said before it's only my opinion and none of the above will serve to prove your opinion wrong, you might be right and the examples you gave are genuine instances where you are. If I were you though I'd question whether your conclusion or your argument came first.

 

[Chaps]

You can only hope for berbatov stays, lets face it he will not play every game if he goes to United.

However, if a player does not want to be at the cluib any longer, get a good price for him and buy in another proven striker - like Santa Cruz or Arshavin - any still have a few million left.

It will be a disaster if Berbatov and Keane go, got to hold onto one of them.

 

[snake1]

i will be gutted if we sell to man utd. this is why the top 4 stay the top 4, as soon as a club look like they can break it, they pick off their best players

Completely agree. Until we stop selling our best players to clubs in the top-4, especially Manchester United, we will never qualify for the Champions League.:-( Sad but true.

 

[DogsOfWar]

Completely agree. Until we stop selling our best players to clubs in the top-4, especially Manchester United, we will never qualify for the Champions League.:-( Sad but true.

I disagree. As long as the money is well spent we can only improve.

The Berbatov fee (assuming it's around £30 million) should pretty much cover the expense of Modric, Gomes and Dos Santos.
I believe Bent is quite capable of covering Berbs 15 goals, and between him and Modric should provide the 11 assists.

So whilst we couldn't replace him on his own the combined replacements could, as well as improving our goalkeeping situation.

At the end of the day we will have broken even on transfers and have an improved starting eleven.

 

[Real_madyidd]

Have you ever done a job when you'd have rather been somewhere else? How much enthusiasm did you have for it?

There are different types of job? I thought you were supposed to hate work?

 

[stemark44]

If Berbatov leaves Spurs for another team he will have shown a complete lack of respect for all our managements efforts since the sacking of Jol.
We have signed IMO one of the top ten managers in football,we have provided him with funds to improve the team,we have brought in more creative players and we are looking to buy a few more.We are one of the most ambitious clubs in Europe,yet it seems this is not enough for him.
Don't mention the crap about - he is 27 and has only a few more years left - Berbatov could easily play top class football well into his thirties.
If he stayed with us next year I have no doubt that he would score over 30 goals and shoot us into the Champions league.
If United lose Ronaldo,I don't see them winning the league or the Champions league next year - if they sign Berbatov they will win at least one of them.I would be absolutely gutted if we sell him to United and he scores a bundle of goals for them.
I could bear him going abroad but not to another team in the EPL!

 

[stemark44]

I have an idea- I wonder what he would say if we offered him a seven year contract with a guarantee that he would be the best paid player at the club no matter who we signed in the future - exacty the same type of contract that Roy Keane had at United!

 

[SpurSince57]

No more than 2 months ago, United were claiming Real had made an illegal approach for Ronaldo. And of course they've stirred the Berbatov situation up with that article they posted on their official site re. Berbatov.


':-|'!!

It's on a news link, not their main page. Said news link also has Ronaldo saying he's a slave. You can hardly accuse them of not being even-handed.

 

[Liamstamb]

Have you ever done a job when you'd have rather been somewhere else? How much enthusiasm did you have for it?

Have you ever been in a relationship when whatever the feeling you had in the first place drains away and then felt stuck and resentful?

Have you ever had an ambition, a dream you've always wanted to fulfil and found someone block it, get in the way, prevent you from realising it?

Have you ever done a job which you absolutely love, where the boss is great and you want to go in every day?

Have you ever been (are you) in a relationship where you love your partner, think they're great and you're lucky to have them?

Have you ever achieved a target, reached a goal and felt that deep sense of satisfaction?

Now think about the difference between each state.

Shouldn't the players have played just as well after we exited the UEFA Cup as we did before? Shouldn't they have professional pride? Shouldn't they have loved the game they're being paid to play just as much afterwards as before?

Motivation's a funny thing and we're all different and respond in different ways to different stimulations, perhaps Berbatov will take our refusal to sell him to Man Utd in his stride, perhaps he's not even bothered about going to Man U, perhaps he'll take it in a positive fashion and go out and play the season of his life to earn his move. Perhaps all these things and I can't know if they won't happen, but if I were Levy (or if I just do it as exercise in "what would i do?) I'd weigh up what i know of Berbatov, the kind of character he is and how human nature is and I'd be very reluctant to take a £15m gamble plus risk CL qualification based on a load of rose-tinted perhaps'.

But like i said before it's only my opinion and none of the above will serve to prove your opinion wrong, you might be right and the examples you gave are genuine instances where you are. If I were you though I'd question whether your conclusion or your argument came first.

People are very influenced by others around them and society/media's perception, that if we had gone out the Uefa Cup to PSV, that in fact would be pretty much it for our season..

If a whole team feel their is nothing left to play for, after going out of the Uefa Cup, and having already qualified for Europe, and it's what the general public/media think,which we all did,then that is completely different to when everyone from fans to players know at the start of the season if we play well, we can genuinely challange.

So if Berbatov is automatically in a different enviroment straight away from the end of last season,where everyone believes Spurs can challange, then say he sulks for a couple weeks or so, but everyone around him is enthusiastic and believes in the push for champions League he will get bored of ''not trying''.

He'll look around and see everyone elses enthusiasm for the season,know he can't move to United then even if he wanted to, so whats he gonna do?

As a 27 year old man in berbatov's situation i believe that i would think .I chose to sign for Spurs on a 6 year contract turning down Man utd in the process.

So then if my employers turn round and say they really would like me to stay on after only 2 years, as they can't afford to lose me.I would hope to be mature enough to say, well fair enough i did sign the contract,i knew what i was doing turning down Man Utd for Tottenham then ,so i'll just have to get on with it.

I know all the fans love me,and my manager is world class he is clearly bringing in some very good players.I could deliberatly play badly and sulk for the whole season, cut off my noise to spite my face,but then is that gonna make me happy? Or is just getting on with it and trying to get Spurs into the Champions league with a team full of enthusiastic hungry players around me gonna be more fulfilling.

He is a footballer playing on a top stage in front of adoring fans,not a bricklayer or toilet cleaner struggling to make ends meet.If you literally have no option because of circumstance ,but to either sulk or get on with it.You will get bored very very quickly of sulking.That is Human nature to make the best of what you have.

Like the ugly bloke who has to make the best of his situation, by having a good personality to get a good woman.He could sulk and be miserable,but after a while it gets boring so you think fuck it i may as well just get on with it and make the best of it,and it really isn't that bad after all.

And berbatov is hardly in a terrbile postion having to stick it out with Spurs in 2008/09 is he?

Look at Alves at Sevilla last year.If you have to stay and get on with it,you will.

 

[RuislipSpur]

People are very influenced by others around them and society/media's perception, that if we had gone out the Uefa Cup to PSV, that in fact would be pretty much it for our season..

If a whole team feel their is nothing left to play for, after going out of the Uefa Cup, and having already qualified for Europe, and it's what the general public/media think,which we all did,then that is completely different to when everyone from fans to players know at the start of the season if we play well, we can genuinely challange.

So if Berbatov is automatically in a different enviroment straight away from the end of last season,where everyone believes Spurs can challange, then say he sulks for a couple weeks or so, but everyone around him is enthusiastic and believes in the push for champions League he will get bored of ''not trying''.

He'll look around and see everyone elses enthusiasm for the season,know he can't move to United then even if he wanted to, so whats he gonna do?

As a 27 year old man in berbatov's situation i believe that i would think .I chose to sign for Spurs on a 6 year contract turning down Man utd in the process.

So then if my employers turn round and say they really would like me to stay on after only 2 years, as they can't afford to lose me.I would hope to be mature enough to say, well fair enough i did sign the contract,i knew what i was doing turning down Man Utd for Tottenham then ,so i'll just have to get on with it.

I know all the fans love me,and my manager is world class he is clearly bringing in some very good players.I could deliberatly play badly and sulk for the whole season, cut off my noise to spite my face,but then is that gonna make me happy? Or is just getting on with it and trying to get Spurs into the Champions league with a team full of enthusiastic hungry players around me gonna be more fulfilling.

He is a footballer playing on a top stage in front of adoring fans,not a bricklayer or toilet cleaner struggling to make ends meet.If you literally have no option because of circumstance ,but to either sulk or get on with it.You will get bored very very quickly of sulking.That is Human nature to make the best of what you have.

Like the ugly bloke who has to make the best of his situation, by having a good personality to get a good woman.He could sulk and be miserable,but after a while it gets boring so you think fuck it i may as well just get on with it and make the best of it,and it really isn't that bad after all.

And berbatov is hardly in a terrbile postion having to stick it out with Spurs in 2008/09 is he?

Look at Alves at Sevilla last year.If you have to stay and get on with it,you will.

:clap: Rep for that my man.

 

[gooch]

Have you ever done a job when you'd have rather been somewhere else? How much enthusiasm did you have for it?

Have you ever been in a relationship when whatever the feeling you had in the first place drains away and then felt stuck and resentful?

Have you ever had an ambition, a dream you've always wanted to fulfil and found someone block it, get in the way, prevent you from realising it?

Have you ever done a job which you absolutely love, where the boss is great and you want to go in every day?

Have you ever been (are you) in a relationship where you love your partner, think they're great and you're lucky to have them?

Have you ever achieved a target, reached a goal and felt that deep sense of satisfaction?

Now think about the difference between each state.

Shouldn't the players have played just as well after we exited the UEFA Cup as we did before? Shouldn't they have professional pride? Shouldn't they have loved the game they're being paid to play just as much afterwards as before?

Motivation's a funny thing and we're all different and respond in different ways to different stimulations, perhaps Berbatov will take our refusal to sell him to Man Utd in his stride, perhaps he's not even bothered about going to Man U, perhaps he'll take it in a positive fashion and go out and play the season of his life to earn his move. Perhaps all these things and I can't know if they won't happen, but if I were Levy (or if I just do it as exercise in "what would i do?) I'd weigh up what i know of Berbatov, the kind of character he is and how human nature is and I'd be very reluctant to take a £15m gamble plus risk CL qualification based on a load of rose-tinted perhaps'.

But like i said before it's only my opinion and none of the above will serve to prove your opinion wrong, you might be right and the examples you gave are genuine instances where you are. If I were you though I'd question whether your conclusion or your argument came first.

a professional footballer is under contract, subject to fines for poor behaviour, and happens to be paid very handsomely

i can chuck my job in either immediately or with notice if i'm ever how you ask, and go and look for something better or go to a rival firm. berbatov cannot

if the transfer window closes and berba is still here, spurs say 'here's 80 grand and we'll see what happens next year,' he will get on with it.

when friends or family die we grieve immensly for a period straight after but we soon have to resume and move on as before

 

[davros]

I disagree. As long as the money is well spent we can only improve.

The Berbatov fee (assuming it's around £30 million) should pretty much cover the expense of Modric, Gomes and Dos Santos.
I believe Bent is quite capable of covering Berbs 15 goals, and between him and Modric should provide the 11 assists.

So whilst we couldn't replace him on his own the combined replacements could, as well as improving our goalkeeping situation.

At the end of the day we will have broken even on transfers and have an improved starting eleven.

I agree with you. Our first team is being strengthened considerably this summer from the looks of things. We are unlikely to get one player who will score and create as many as Berbatov, but if he goes I am sure his replacement will have his own qualities. Berbs has been our main source of creativity, but if Modric can provide that from a little deeper then I am sure this could bring the best out of other players, particularly our wide player(s, assuming we start with Bale or another wide man on the left). We aren't suddenly going to be playing with 10 men just because one guy leaves. Ramos has a great reputation, built at clubs without Berbatov.