Ratings vs Arsenal

MOM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 85 16.6%
  • Rose

    Votes: 11 2.1%
  • Verts

    Votes: 3 0.6%
  • Kaboul

    Votes: 385 75.2%
  • Naughton

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Capoue

    Votes: 6 1.2%
  • Mason

    Votes: 11 2.1%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Chadli

    Votes: 5 1.0%
  • Adebayor

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Lennon

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Bentaleb

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Dier

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    512

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
44,524
yet poch was happy with the performance, you're wrong bc that it was implenented piss poorly...might not of been perfect, but piss poorly was always wrong.
 

CowInAComa

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
5,294
Regardless of whether the team was told 'to let them have it in the opponents half' or 'press up high' we were relatively unsucessful either way. When you instruct your side to make it compact you would expect the team to combine, reduce the gaps and make it difficult to come through the middle. Unfortunately I didn't see much combination pressure as we sat deep. We were fortunate that most of Arsenals 'final balls' came ended up coming from out wide and this allowed Kaboul and to a lesser extent Vert to do what centre backs ought to do best, head / volley the ball away. Arsenals lack of a traditional big striker suggests that tactically Wenger erred playing to one of our relative strengths.....the fact that a Wellbeck airswing from a cross seems to prove this. Glad to get the point but realistic enough to see how ugly and fortunate we were.
erm... how to say this...

might have been the plan?
 

mpickard2087

Fantastic Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
19,201
First half there was an issue at times with someone picking the ball up between the lines, for the second half though I thought the cm2 cut that space down, and everything they did went wide. I think you have to give our defensive shape (particularly the back four and the two centre mids) some credit.
 

SteveH

BSoDL candidate for SW London
Joined
Jul 21, 2003
Messages
7,518
The General plan is not being disputed. How well we performed within it is what smd of us are disputing.

We weren't compact. They walked through our first line like it wasn't there.
They huffed and puffed a lot for the home team as well.
Good news my normal crap aptitude for picking new players is on song, I really wanted Welbeck.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,382
They huffed and puffed a lot for the home team as well.
Good news my normal crap aptitude for picking new players is on song, I really wanted Welbeck.
I love Wenger the coach, but Wenger the tactician is 3rd world. His choice of players and application of them makes AVB seem like a genius. His coaching has insured CL football for two decades but his tactical nous has insured no serious title challenge and one trophy in the last several.

Arteta ? Ramsey in the CM2, Welbeck, Wilshere or OC where Ozil, Cazorla and Sanchez should be ?
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
14,143
I love Wenger the coach, but Wenger the tactician is 3rd world. His choice of players and application of them makes AVB seem like a genius. His coaching has insured CL football for two decades but his tactical nous has insured no serious title challenge and one trophy in the last several.

Arteta ? Ramsey in the CM2, Welbeck, Wilshere or OC where Ozil, Cazorla and Sanchez should be ?
Very true and I have said as much for the past few years, it's why so many Arsenal fans are so torn with how they feel towards Wenger at the moment, they know that with him, they are not likely to win the league, but they cant bring themselves to say "Wenger out!"
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,382
Oh so now you're calling Poch a liar?

It's amazing how when it suits me newspaper platitudes are "garbage" or "disingenuously misunderstood" but when they suit you they are an insightful expose of truth.


He was muttering platitudes. "We had a plan, tough place to play, we got a point blah blah". Would you expect him to say much else ? No you wouldn't, unless I'd said it.

Why do you believe the journalist was making up about Pochettino shouting at Eriksen to target and press Arteta ? I would imagine he didn't want Ramsey or Wilshere being given time on the ball either. He'd be a loon if he didn't ?

We all saw him looking vexed just about every time the camera panned on him. We saw Chadli look round expecting others and looking puzzled when there weren't. We saw Capoue imploring people to move up.

Isn't it most likely that we did have plan (who doesn't apart from Tim and Harry ?) but he was getting irate because our forward 3/4 weren't performing their part of it very well ?


I can buy the "we had a plan" bit, what I'm struggling with is BG/MrP trying to say he had deliberately instructed Adebayor, Eriksen and Chadli to stroll around doing fuck all when Arsenal had the ball.

pretty sure the lack of pressing was by design, we went to contain and counter, good plan and it worked.
Absolutely bang on.

It was so obvious, how some are missing that is perplexing lol.

Even if Pochettino says "we had a plan" that doesn't mean that these ideas are vindicated. It means Wenger was tactically inept and was ill-equipped to capitalise on our poor application of Pochettino's plan.

These "containment" plans rarely involve your front 3 or 4 being passengers without the ball.

If by some miracle this is the case, and the journo who heard him imploring Eriklsen to press better is just a weird a conspiracy theorist, and what I and others saw of the likes of Chadli looking bewildered when going to press that others weren't following, then fair enough. But even then I'll still think it's a shit "plan" poorly executed.
 

ClintEastwould

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2012
Messages
3,280
It's amazing how when it suits me newspaper platitudes are "garbage" or "disingenuously misunderstood" but when they suit you they are an insightful expose of truth.


He was muttering platitudes. "We had a plan, tough place to play, we got a point blah blah". Would you expect him to say much else ? No you wouldn't, unless I'd said it.

Why do you believe the journalist was making up about Pochettino shouting at Eriksen to target and press Arteta ? I would imagine he didn't want Ramsey or Wilshere being given time on the ball either. He'd be a loon if he didn't ?

We all saw him looking vexed just about every time the camera panned on him. We saw Chadli look round expecting others and looking puzzled when there weren't. We saw Capoue imploring people to move up.

Isn't it most likely that we did have plan (who doesn't apart from Tim and Harry ?) but he was getting irate because our forward 3/4 weren't performing their part of it very well ?


I can buy the "we had a plan" bit, what I'm struggling with is BG/MrP trying to say he had deliberately instructed Adebayor, Eriksen and Chadli to stroll around doing fuck all when Arsenal had the ball.






Even if Pochettino says "we had a plan" that doesn't mean that these ideas are vindicated. It means Wenger was tactically inept and was ill-equipped to capitalise on our poor application of Pochettino's plan.

These "containment" plans rarely involve your front 3 or 4 being passengers without the ball.

If by some miracle this is the case, and the journo who heard him imploring Eriklsen to press better is just a weird a conspiracy theorist, and what I and others saw of the likes of Chadli looking bewildered when going to press that others weren't following, then fair enough. But even then I'll still think it's a shit "plan" poorly executed.
That's the seed of this argument bc. You cannot for the life of you give credit it to the performance because you have already decided its a shit plan. If it's so shit, why have we finally scored and gotten a point after getting beat in 3 straight derbys with our last 4 visits to the emirates an accumulative 13-4 score in favor of then. I mean FFS you thought we had performed well against Liverpool, a game we lost 3 nil at home! Your entire justification over your view of that game was based upon possession and passing stats. Own up for once, you just cannot for the life of you enjoy a game of football unless we have the majority of the ball. Pochetinno himself said we needed to stay compact and you are still questioning the legitimacy of the plan. Sure we didn't carry it out to perfection, because if we did we'd probably have run out 2-0 winners, but when does it all ever go all according to plan.
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
11,827
It's amazing how when it suits me newspaper platitudes are "garbage" or "disingenuously misunderstood" but when they suit you they are an insightful expose of truth.


He was muttering platitudes. "We had a plan, tough place to play, we got a point blah blah". Would you expect him to say much else ? No you wouldn't, unless I'd said it.

Why do you believe the journalist was making up about Pochettino shouting at Eriksen to target and press Arteta ? I would imagine he didn't want Ramsey or Wilshere being given time on the ball either. He'd be a loon if he didn't ?

We all saw him looking vexed just about every time the camera panned on him. We saw Chadli look round expecting others and looking puzzled when there weren't. We saw Capoue imploring people to move up.

Isn't it most likely that we did have plan (who doesn't apart from Tim and Harry ?) but he was getting irate because our forward 3/4 weren't performing their part of it very well ?


I can buy the "we had a plan" bit, what I'm struggling with is BG/MrP trying to say he had deliberately instructed Adebayor, Eriksen and Chadli to stroll around doing fuck all when Arsenal had the ball.

Even if Pochettino says "we had a plan" that doesn't mean that these ideas are vindicated. It means Wenger was tactically inept and was ill-equipped to capitalise on our poor application of Pochettino's plan.

These "containment" plans rarely involve your front 3 or 4 being passengers without the ball.

If by some miracle this is the case, and the journo who heard him imploring Eriklsen to press better is just a weird a conspiracy theorist, and what I and others saw of the likes of Chadli looking bewildered when going to press that others weren't following, then fair enough. But even then I'll still think it's a shit "plan" poorly executed.
:

"But our plan, as you saw on the pitch, was to be compact, to be able to receive in the defensive line and, after we recovered the ball, to go forward quickly to surprise Arsenal."
to be able to receive in the defensive line and, after we recovered the ball
to be able to receive in the defensive line
the defensive line

what part of this are you failing to comprehend?
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
11,827
The joking about possession aside, is there anyone here who thinks our pressing inside our own half was up to scratch?
to know whether it was up to scratch you need to know how much and how high they were instructed to press. poch said the plan was to sit deep and win the ball in the defensive line, that's exactly what we did. if he'd said the plan was to press from the front then we failed miserably but he didn't say that, so ...
 
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
10,251
to know whether it was up to scratch you need to know how much and how high they were instructed to press. poch said the plan was to sit deep and win the ball in the defensive line, that's exactly what we did. if he'd said the plan was to press from the front then we failed miserably but he didn't say that, so ...
Do you think that pressing only takes place in the opposition's half, BG?
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,382
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what part of this are you failing to comprehend?

Most of it really.

We weren't very compact until they were bearing down on our 18 yard line after walking past the two front lines. That isn't being compact and if Wenger had played his proper players in proper places it would have been catastrophic, as that plan has been the other 16 or so years we tried it.

And maybe you can explain what he actually means "to receive the ball in the defensive line" ?

Are you saying you still think the idea is for 6 people ahead of the defence not to press or tackle anyone but to wait until they reach our defence ? Is that what you think the plan was ? Or what he is saying the plan was ?

If so was Lamela disobeying Pochettino's orders ? because he was running around like a busy ****.

Surely we were better off trying to win the ball back a little sooner and catch them with their pants down (like, you know, the goal we scored) rather than have the likes of Vertonghen running the length of the pitch only to find no one else could be arsed to run that far with him.

Seriously ? You still really believe the plan was to not tackle at all until the "defensive line" ?
 
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