Ratings vs Man Utd

Discussion in 'Match Reports' started by Bulletspur, Dec 28, 2014.

MOM

  1. Lloris

    288 vote(s)
    76.2%
  2. Chiriches

    7 vote(s)
    1.9%
  3. Fazio

    31 vote(s)
    8.2%
  4. Verts

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Davies

    9 vote(s)
    2.4%
  6. Townsend

    3 vote(s)
    0.8%
  7. Mason

    6 vote(s)
    1.6%
  8. Stambouli

    5 vote(s)
    1.3%
  9. Eriksen

    3 vote(s)
    0.8%
  10. Chadli

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Kane

    23 vote(s)
    6.1%
  12. Lamela

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. Dembele

    1 vote(s)
    0.3%
  14. No one

    1 vote(s)
    0.3%
  15. Undecided

    1 vote(s)
    0.3%
  1. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    He didn't have a good game today. There's no dressing that up. And it's not the first less than great game he's had. But I think some of the problems our CM's are having are definitely being exasperated by the lack of diligence and discipline shown by those around them.

    Like I said, I can't say that I think Mason is the future for sure, but we as a club are not going to be able to go out and buy the complete CM, even if he existed, so personally I think we need to show a modicum of patience, at the very least until the end of this season and see if Mason can learn.

    I heard the commentator say today it was Kane's 50th appearance for us today. I'd say for the first 40 of those most of us wouldn't have believed what he's giving the team in the last 10.

    I don't mind of Mason's dropped, because he ddn't play well and a kick up the arse might not hurt, and unlike many I think Capoue is a decent footballer, but I also don't mind if Mason isn't dropped, because I've seen enough in terms of his ability and mentality to think he's worth at least more time, if not the next game, then definitely at least some more games this season as we rotate etc.
     
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  2. Mr Pink

    Mr Pink SC Supporter

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    It was obvious that LVG wanted to hit us hard and try and win the game in the first half, they could/should of done so. That was evidenced by the fact that he made no changes playing not even 48 hours later. He would of expected that attack to cause us plenty of problems and that they did. The massive problem he had, obviously, was that they couldn't capitalise on it and they struggled in the second half as their intensity dropped - probably in part to fatigue and our superior fitness, but also we worked harder off the ball and definitely had the better of the second half and conceivably should of won it with Mason's fantastic chance.

    We couldn't cope in the first half though. They outnumbered us in the middle and their wing backs were really causing us problems, well a lot more Young, but we struggled hugely with this.

    Even with this tactical deficiency/disadvantage we still didn't press anywhere near well enough and this only compounded the matter.

    I know the likes of Kane play with no fear but it felt a lot of them were star struck or something. I felt we paid them too much respect and we looked nervous making several mistakes that allowed them to construct dangerous attacks.

    We were exceptionally lucky to come in level at half time. The second half was much improved and all of a sudden it didn't look like we're waiting to get beat, but we were competing and doing the basic things a lot better. It became quite scrappy in stages but it was a scrap we were winning. And the chance for Mason, created by Kane, would of been a beautiful goal, indeed it was a beautiful move. The subs should of been made earlier though as we really dominated the last 15 minutes or so with United making foul after foul, they were hanging on even though we wern't banging the door down in terms of real clear cut chances, it was most definitely wave after wave of pressure and they couldn't cope. Earlier changes might have won us the game.

    Its quite extraordinary when you think about it though. You look at the experience United had on that pitch today compared to us. The difference is vast. Only MCnair for them isn't an experienced footballer. Be it age, lack of experience in the PL, or any top flight League for that matter, its some difference. Worth mentioning IMO.

    People are calling us lucky, and we have rode our luck in the last two games, but you can't deny we have something about us. Its not just luck in the other games we've won late on etc, we're developing as a team under Pochettino and we're getting stronger I think. We're picking points up at some rate and there feels like there's a lot more to come.

    Overall I'm encouraged and another point against Chelsea would be a great points haul over the festive period considering the fixtures.

    Individual stuff:

    Lloris 7.5 running out of superlatives.

    Vlad 6.5 the last ditch defending surely saved us at least one goal, that was quite excellent. Why he kept showing Young on to his stronger foot I have no idea. That caused us real problems.

    Fazio 7 one minute he looks like a rock, the next I have my heart in my mouth. I remember him chesting the ball down when surely a big header up the pitch, what he's best at, was called for in that situation. They duly nicked it and another dangerous attack was mounted. He did win a shit load of headers though, as you'd expect and had a couple of tasty efforts on goal to.

    Vertonghen 6
    was ok I thought, could of been a bit more commanding? Did he give away a free kick against Mata that led to something, can't remember exactly.

    Davies 6.5 I know many think he was very good today. I wouldn't go that far. Was reliable for the most part but I just felt he could of done better in some situations. I just remember having that feeling a few times. I like him though and would pick him over Rose. He's just a better footballer albeit he hasn't the pace and power of Danny.

    Stambouli 6 really struggled with Mason to come to terms with the midfield in the first half, but being out numbered always means its an up hill battle. Improved in the second half though and showed some nice touches I thought.

    Mason 6 same as above really. Lost the ball a few times but I like his bite and thrust. Good run when Kane puts him through but he has to at least work the keeper there. It was a huge chance really and given how limp United were starting to look it probably would of won us the game. Needs to do better in terms of possession though. Yes he's trying more things than others but needs to look after the ball a bit better.

    Townsend 6.5 the first twenty minutes I found myself biting my tongue with frustration but then he became brighter. Lovely clipped through ball into Kane, who should of done better, and offered us some real thrust down that right side of the pitch. Couple of decent efforts on goal but his decision making still doesn't overly impress me. There's no doubt he has talent, whether he possess the footballing brain to accompany it is another thing all together. Overall an improvement, but I still wouldn't be starting him regularly in the league until his off the ball work improves.

    Eriksen 6 he should of been showing more desire to drop deeper in the first half to help the other two out, who were being horribly overrun. Like the others, and the team collectively, he improved in the second half and was growing in influence. Still not a great day by his high standards.

    Chadli 5.5 thought he offered very little in truth. There was one moment were he got out muscled by Rafael I think, with a high ball sailing down that left side. For such a big and athletic guy he should be bossing it. Needs to be more imposing and its a bit perplexing as to why he's so soft. He's good technically, has a bit of pace, and a real eye for goal. He needs to man up a bit if he wants to take his game to the next level. Its there for him to be a hit in this League if he wants it. But he's drifting out of games because he's not embracing the physical stuff enough IMO.

    Kane 7.5 MOTM thought he worked ever so hard and his pressing was fantastic. He's just a pure nuisance who won't give up, he understands the runs to make and when to apply the pressure. Kane has a bit of everything - intelligence, guile, strength, even powerful runs demonstrated by the chance he created for Mason today, a threat in the air, and of course his goal return so far. But his work for the team and his desire is his biggest quality IMO. To have that relentless drive spear heading your attack, in conjunction with the above skill set, is priceless. The way he fought to win the ball back, charged forward with four United players around him and then slips the most sumptuous through ball to Mason was a thing of beauty. It was just rude of Mason not to finish that. Looks like we have our main forward now - one of our own, fantastic.


    Dembele/lamela - thought the former did well when he came on. His power and strength only increased our domination. Lamela didn't get much opportunity to influence anything in terms of attacking intent.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2014
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  3. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    Or Pochettino could have 4231 surgically removed from his brain, play Capoue in the middle of Mason and Bentaleb in a 433 and play Eriksen and Lamela either side of Kane.

    That would be a multi faceted CM3 that had most bases well covered, tenacity (mason), height, defensive shield, reading and distribution (Capoue), water carrying (Bentaleb) and all can play football, all want to get on the ball and pass it.

    Less defensive work for Eriksen and Lamela to get through, spending more time in the oppo's third doing their thing.

    The defence would be less exposed, and we'd be able to control games between the high intensity pressing phases better, instead of being hostage to fortune and over run so often.

    We don't really need Schniederlin, we need the manager to start getting the best out of a decent bunch of players more consistently.
     
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  4. thinktank

    thinktank Hmmm...

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    Capoue isn't gonna work out, BC. And we do need MS. Come on, dude.
     
  5. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    Well, we're not getting MS. So what's your plan B ?
     
  6. thinktank

    thinktank Hmmm...

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    Ask Mitchell, how the fuck should I know.
     
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  7. THFCSPURS19

    THFCSPURS19 Well-Known Member

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    Poch clearly doesn't rate Capoue so it's not going to happen. I don't know why you have this obsession with him. He started well but got progressively worse. He's also part of that group that supported Ade against Kane if you believe ITK as well.
     
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  8. dude573

    dude573 Active Member

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    Lloris MOTM

    Special mention to Townsend, gets so much abuse from our fans its sometimes hard to believe that he wears a white shirt.
     
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  9. jonathanhotspur

    jonathanhotspur Loose Cannon

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    He's just looking for attention, @thinktank.
     
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  10. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    All our CM's start well and have supposedly got progressively worse. Look at Mason lately or Bentaleb against Leicester. Look at Capoue in many of his games, like against Schniederlin's Southampton. We've seen all of them play well, logic says they didn't just turn to shit.

    None of them are perfect either, but we can't keep ditching very decent players because they have a bad couple of games or because the team isn't performing well around them and not everything is their fault. There are very few perfect CM's in this league, I think we have some decent ones if used better.

    If Capoue has fucked himself behind the scenes then that's too bad for him. But until we know that for sure then for me, he's a very viable footballing option. Especially as we aren't going to sign MS or anyone much better than those we have IMO.
     
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  11. thinktank

    thinktank Hmmm...

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    Nah, he just finds it hard to let go.
     
  12. Jamturk

    Jamturk Well-Known Member

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    We paid them too much respect in the 1st half, I was standing there thinking they've got a great attack and a dodgy defence and we've come out like this.

    Lloris was superb especially when he stood up against RvP and tackled him.

    Stamboulli just isn't good enough I'm afraid, and Townsend hasn't got long left to prove himself at this level.

    Verts was very good and Fazio is getting there, once he gets his Spanish league tendancies under control he will be fine.

    I thought Davies was very good too.

    Kane came into it 2nd half once he got some support.

    The thing with the 352 it can really overwhelm you unless you are very positve against it, you need to get your full backs overlapping to make a 6 in midfield and then it has no answer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2014
  13. THFCSPURS19

    THFCSPURS19 Well-Known Member

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    Apostrophes go after the 'n', mate.
     
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  14. ultimateloner

    ultimateloner Well-Known Member

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    Lloris 2nd MOTM for me. Can't remember the last keeper that single-handeley gives us points.
     
  15. Flashspur

    Flashspur Well-Known Member

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    We got lucky. In fact I think Lady Luck loves us something awful at the moment. First Leicester and now Man Ure! How we came off at half time not 3-0 down – I don’t know.

    And talk about a game of two halves? This was it!

    We were awful first half because we did very little that teams playing in a league of this stature should be doing. We didn’t compete for the ball at all. We stood off Manure and allowed them time and space and in this league regardless of whether it’s Chelsea or Burnley – you can’t do that.

    I thought that Poch got the structure badly wrong to start with. The 4-2-3-1 just didn’t cope with the 3-5-2 that Van Gaal put out and it became obvious very quickly. Both Mason and Stambouli were numerically outnumbered in the middle of the pitch and got no support from their forward players. However, it was not the individual performances but the collective team ethic that was so frustrating to see. We did none of the basic things like compete for the ball in general play. The usual suspects were the passengers – Eriksen, Chadli. Mason and Stambouli were frequently overrun and Chiriches had a nightmare against Young with Townsend offering little support in the early part of the half. With Manure waltzing through the middle - Fazio, Verts and Lloris were under constant pressure. The only highlights of that half for me were the occasional threat that Townsend offered and Davies calmness on the left flank. Some individual concerns were Stambouli struggling to contain the Manure midfield and Mason’s profligacy with the ball that was costing us possession time and time again and the transitions from us losing the ball, only kept us under pressure. But the major contributors to all this was Poch’s team formation and our inability to press all over the field.

    Second half - a different story. We came out and we pressed them, we also pressed higher on the pitch and a game that was running past us was suddenly there for the taking. In the first half, the amount of time we allowed them on the ball was criminal. In the second half, the little time we allowed them swung the game back in our favour. As a result of the whole team pressing all over – Manure’s grip started to falter and our lads started to attack more dangerously. I was still really disappointed with the poor contribution of Eriksen and Chadli in the second half. These players have to become more involved in games and not when it suits them. Kane once again was simply outstanding. He was everywhere and had a never say die attitude. I wish we could clone this lad as he has a drive and enthusiasm that some of his cohorts lack. He, Mason and Lamela are the only players who have bought into Poch’s high press philosophy. The rest of the side is still woeful at it.

    In the second half Mason got quite a bit of stick on the match thread for his misplaced passes but he was the only player trying to move the play forward. A lot of the time players were standing still and not moving for the pass and particularly in the case of Chadli and Erisken it was criminal to watch at times. Stambouli held his ground and seemed to acclimatize to the pace of the game as well which helped us. Clearly the effort to press better and our fitness changed the game in the second half.

    While a draw in the end was a fair result I think we could have nicked it and Mason’s miss was terrible but he was the only player on the field apart from Lamela who would have sprinted on to that Kane pass. You would not expect to see Eriksen, Townsend or Chadli do that.

    Overall the main concern in that Pochettino needs to find a better way to manage games tactically. We are conceding too much possession for long periods and Lady Luck isn’t going to be with us forever.



    Lloris – 8 As always a great game. One poor move with RVP but otherwise a world class keeper on his game as usual.

    Chriches – 7 When weighing up Vlad with Walker, while the latter is quicker at least Vlad is a little more composed. Even so, he had a torrid time and allowed Young either too much space or a run on the inside channel in the first half. He improved in the second half with the whole team but this was a fiery encounter for him. I admired his fight and willingness to get stuck in. Can’t say that for some of our players.

    Fazio – 8 He fought hard and didn’t drop his head once. I am liking this lad more and more. This is two games now where he has been one of the outstanding players on the field for us. Put in an enormous shift with Jan and they can be proud for a back to the walls performance.

    Vertonghen – 8 He was mostly consistent right through with only the occasional wobble. Got through a mountain of work with Fazio in the first half especially and was literally the last line of defense for most of the first 45 minutes with his partner as we were battered.

    Davies – 7 Excellent game. I don't think he's great going forward which detracts from the 4-2-3-1 but he shored up his side and was more steady then Chirices. He was calm and played the ball out of defense well at times.

    Stambouli – 7 He put in a hard shift. Can’t blame him much for the first half as he and Mason were overrun. A tough game for the lad but he pulled through in the second half and became more confident as the game wore on. Had Rooney in his pocket most of the time. Still does not look acclimatized to the pace of the PL

    Mason – 7 A tough one this? On the stats side 19/33 passes is really pretty awful but he was the only one trying to make things happen. You cannot fault his willingness to fight but he needs to cut out the careless mistakes. However to be fair to him he had a couple of players in front of him who just stood there and hid for most of the first half. He will be an amazing player next season - this is all character building stuff.

    Townsend - 6 Defensively he was poor at times which contributed to Vlad’s travails but offensively he was easily our best player in the first half. He seemed to run out of steam in the second and had a prett anonymous time on the flank.

    Eriksen – 5 Really, really poor first half. Shameful. No guts, no fight and no participation. He improved in the second half but still didn’t show any real desire to be part of the game. Carrick had him in his pocket but Eriksen is a better payer then Carrick ever was and he should be using this talent. I know he wins us matches from time to time but FFS he needs to be in the thick of it when the going gets tough and not just grab the glory in the easy games. You don’t want a player like this who is perpetually hiding when we are being pummeled. At least he could have pressed more energetically if nothing else or moved for a pass into space. I don’t think he belongs in a central role. He does not have the fight for it. I’d push him out to the left, drop Chadli and move Mason up into the middle of the centre three with Lamela on the right. At least Lamela and Mason will fight to the bloody last.

    Chadli – 5 As above. Another fucking passenger.

    Kane – 8 Outstanding match really and such an improvement on the Leicester performance. In the second half in particular, he was energetic, led the pressing and put ManU under real pressure. His performance and drive changed the game. He also played the best pass of the game to set up Mason for that chance that went begging. MOTM

    Dembele/Lamela – 6 Came on and really had limited time to change the game. Poch should have had them on sooner as we looked a different side with them on.

    Oppo – 7 Van Gaal has Manure ticking again. They played energetically and stuck to the little things so much more effectively in the first half. Pressed all over the field. Gave us no time and space and moved the ball quickly into attack using the open channels very effectively. We can take a lot from this game and Van Gaal’s coaching methods would be the first thing. Do the basic’s well and the rest will follow. They ran out of steam in the second half which helped us a bit.

    Poch – 6 He made no major tactical adjustment to counter Van Gaal’s 3-5-2. We struggled in the first half because of this and he takes the primary blame. We were cut through like a hot knife through butter and over run for the first 45 minutes numerous times but we can’t play rope a dope forever. We hung in there due to the back four, Stambouli and Mason more than anything which I why I gave those lads 7+. As a defensive collective they saved Poch’s skin. More telling is the fact that we aren't working off the ball collectively as a team. We don’t press high and we still aren't pressing all over the pitch. Still a lot of work to be done on the training ground. He has to have a Plan B when things aren’t going well for us.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2014
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  16. Flashspur

    Flashspur Well-Known Member

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    then dont read it then champ - simples!
     
  17. The Scarecrow

    The Scarecrow Well-Known Member

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    Chill the fack out, mate. He probably read it, he just tried to be funny.
     
  18. Flashspur

    Flashspur Well-Known Member

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    as in funny ha ha, funny sarcastic or funny fall flat on your face...i'll take the latter Mr Scarecrow
     
  19. Cravenspurs

    Cravenspurs Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this!

    Capoue to me has the bite to cover the CB's and enough vision to launch some attacks.

    Bentaleb, Mason, Capoue could be a nice center 3.

    This preseason Capoue and Mason really excited me and we haven't seen that since.
     
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  20. St José Dominguez

    St José Dominguez Well-Known Member

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    People think we could get Schneiderlin and suddenly our CM would be all singing and dancing. If it was simply swapping in him for Mason for example I'd put money on us having exactly the same issues we've seen recently if keep playing this same formation with the same personnel.
    The central area is so overrun and we're giving up control of games for far too long periods even against weaker opposition. We have to either move to a 4-3-3 or make some decisions on who is starting. Currently Eriksen and Chadli in particular are playing huge roles in getting us wins due to assists/goals but also playing a huge part in why we're not controlling games due to workrate, poor pressing discipline or simply not getting involved enough. In this formation as it is there's no chance we can accommodate both.
    People look at Schneiderlin as some missing piece completely ignoring at Soton he had players working their bollocks off which played a massive part in him controlling the middle.
     
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