The Jermaine Jenas Hijack Thread

[thejames]

I think, similar to Lennon, there's been too much expected of him, too much responsibilty for him to run the game and provide the engine/spark.

Fibreglass manages it (at a younger age) but he's had a better bunch around him. Next season will be interesting. He'll either step up, or he'll fade into the reserves before being snapped up by Stoke.

 

[danielneeds]

The problem with Jenas is that since Carrick has gone, he has tried to be a player that he is not. How many times in the last couple of years have we seen him come back and get the ball off the back four and try and start the play by spreading passes about, usually ending with him playing a nothing ball?

As he said himself, when Ramos came he told him to stop doing this and start pressing higher up the pitch and concentrate on getting in the box, using his incredible lung-power to stretch the other team's defensive midfielder, and get beyond the center halves. This simplication of his game resulted in some scintillating form in the early part of this year (before the whole team tailed off affter the CC win).

Now that Modric has come in Jenas will have no need to try and be a playmaker in the middle of the park, my assumption is that Ramos will try to get Modric to orchestrate the tempo of our play this season. What Jenas has to concentrate on is making sure that his finishing becomes much more clinical. At the moment he scores maybe 1 in 4 chances, he needs to get this down to 1 in 2 to be able to really emerge as one of the top premiership midfielders.

Someone on here has compared him to Gerrard, and that is unfair, there is only one Gerrard in world football, and Jenas' characteristics certainly aren't similar, but the things he can do well can make him as effective as, say Frank Lampard if he channels his game in the right way, I really think Ramos can get this out of him

 

[walworthyid]

You've criticed JJ saying:

"JJ is a poor man's Gerrard and he becomes even worse the game is all about technique. His first touch is poor, his vision is generally poor because when he receives the ball he either knocks 30 yards ahead of himself and loses it or passes it backwards. He seldom passes forwards, he has no composure in advanced areas"

Yet, Huddlestone's game is all about technique, his first touch is excellent, as is his vision, he plays the ball forward and he is very composed in advanced areas. It seems like you're criticising JJ for not being like Huddlestone, but you don't rate Huddlestone. Also, I don't think JJ does have poor technique or vision. But, as you say, we'll have to wait and see how many games they start.

Those points are all very valid but taken slightly out of context in that my criticism of JJ in this context is based on his skill set and the fact his skill set does not lend itself well to the way I think that Ramos wants us to play.

IMO JJ is not suited to playing high up the pitch becuase he lacks the composure on the ball, the close control and the ball retention skills. He is not suited to the holding role for similar reasons but also because his positional awareness has not been developed to play with the game in front of him. Zokora is the opposite, he cannot play with the game around him, like JJ can, but is far better playing with the game in front of him.

On the other hand, Huddlestone has the requisite skills in terms of technique to play in an advanced role, he has good close control, is good at making space, is composed in advanced areas etc, but for me lacks the mobility for the role. You could say that Requelme also lacks quickness, but he moves the ball more quickly, he has a wider variety of skills for going past players, and is more nimble etc.

I don't want JJ out of the team as much as don't want Huddlestone out of the team, I am merely pointing out that IMO neither of them have the skills to play in the roles that would be available to them in Ramos' spurs. Hudd will NOT be our holding midfield player as it stands and neither will JJ. Nor will either player be our advanced ball-retaining, chance-making player ala Scholes, Xavi, Requelme or Ortega.

I would love to see both players become world-beaters, for JJ it is perhaps too late, but Huddlestone has a chance, although his physique is against him.

 

[don1]

i think jenas has come on since ramos has taken over, he was brillant in the 2 semi finals against the scum probably his best games in a spurs shirt after that he got called into the england squad and then was unluckly with an injury, sadly like some of the others at the end of last season they went missing in games.
but over all he has been good, he has pace to burn and would run all day remember in the final near the end he ran about 70 yards in the 80 something minue to win the ball back. i am looking forward to see how he gets on with modric in the middle which he can only get better

 

[General Levy]

I would love to see both players become world-beaters, for JJ it is perhaps too late, but Huddlestone has a chance, although his physique is against him.

Lampard came to fruit at around 25/26 so Jenas still has time yet.

Although Jenas has all the tools physically, I do not think he has the footballing brain to operate them.

 

[jamesc0le]

i think jenas has served as well but it is time for spurs to move up a level or two if we are to get in the top4 this season. for this reason, i can only see jenas being sold to west ham (would improve their squad a level) for ten million, or maybe even rafa b. could see him as a cheaper alternative to barry, seeing as jenas can fill a number of roles in any given team. i would be happy to see him continue at spurs if only to fill gaps at full back or anywhere across the middle if there are injuries, buy nothing more.

not a key player, possibly a key substitute and squad member.


or hamburg.

 

[mil1lion]

Jenas will be an important player for us this season. He's the engine room in our midfield and we'll need him early on, in what is looking to be a completely new look midfield. He's the one with the experience, pace and energy at the heart of our midfield now and with Modric in the side, he might get the consistency in his game. As great as Modric is, he doesn't have the physical presence and pace of Jenas. So i wouldn't be surprised if we play both Modric and Jenas early on next season, with a defensive midfielder in behind. We might even start the season with Modric on the left, where he played for Zagreb. At least until he settles into the English game. I definately think Jenas will start in the middle against Boro though.

 

[DC_Boy]

Jenas will be an important player for us this season. .

agreed mil1lion

 

[sloth]

The other player who's scandalously under-rated on here (but not by ramos it seems) is DZ. That guy's potentially world class (lol; but I mean it) and for me is another certain starter next season. With a better goalie than Robbo I think you'll see our CBs and CMs begin to look a whole lot better than they somtimes seemed last season.

 

[Michey]

Why has there been no enquiries about Jenas? Not even any paper gossip, which is weird.

Not weird and well it says it all really...

We're stuck with Mr Overrated for eternity. We can only hope that he requests a transfer around christmas when beeing stuck on the bench.

So bring on the bad rep for telling you the truth

 

[General Levy]

The other player who's scandalously under-rated on here (but not by ramos it seems) is DZ. That guy's potentially world class (lol; but I mean it) and for me is another certain starter next season. With a better goalie than Robbo I think you'll see our CBs and CMs begin to look a whole lot better than they somtimes seemed last season.

:rofl:

 

[mil1lion]

Before everyone writes Jenas off i think you should remember how Robbie Keane was at the same age. He only really stepped up the next class (which i would call 'great') in the last two season. By coincidence or not it was alongside Berbatov. Also, coincidence or not, i think Jenas had his best season alongside Carrick ( i dont know if anyone mentioned it but we almost finished 4th like we almost signed Rivaldo) So maybe alongside Modric he would step up? Maybe alongside someone better then Zokora he might step up? Just a thought before we start calling for him to be sold just yet.

 

[joey55]

The other player who's scandalously under-rated on here (but not by ramos it seems) is DZ. That guy's potentially world class (lol; but I mean it) and for me is another certain starter next season. With a better goalie than Robbo I think you'll see our CBs and CMs begin to look a whole lot better than they somtimes seemed last season.

When Jol was put officially in charge, the first change he made, was to put Carrick in the team and play him in DM. Over the next 64 Premiership games, we conceded just 63 goals, all of which Robbo played in and Dawson for the large majority. Since Carrick left, we've played 76 games and conceded 115 goals. Basically we concede on average 0.5 goals per game more post Carrick. So whilst undoubtedly Robbo has been awful, there is very strong evidence that we'd see an equally big improvement on our defensive record by recruiting a top quality DM.

 

[walworthyid]

When Jol was put officially in charge, the first change he made, was to put Carrick in the team and play him in DM. Over the next 64 Premiership games, we conceded just 63 goals, all of which Robbo played in and Dawson for the large majority. Since Carrick left, we've played 76 games and conceded 115 goals. Basically we concede on average 0.5 goals per game more post Carrick. So whilst undoubtedly Robbo has been awful, there is very strong evidence that we'd see an equally big improvement on our defensive record by recruiting a top quality DM.

Spot on!

I believe this is the case for 2 main reasons.

Firstly, Carrick while not a physical player is an excellent defensive midfielder who reads the game very well. He has the uncanny knack of being in the right place at the right time, he also wins nearly every near post header from corners. It would be very interesting to see how many goals we conceded from corners or deep set pieces while he was in the team?

The second reason is the fact that we retained possession so much better when he was in the team.

It should be added though that we played with more defensively minded players for alot of that time. Edman and Stalteri are more defensive minded than Lee and Chimbo. TT and Davids are also far more solid than Zokora and Steed. We had a better balance and a better shape BUT, we scored far fewer goals.

 

[DC_Boy]

Before everyone writes Jenas off i think you should remember

Hi M - I think you'll find that I haven't wrtten JJ off yet (nor quite a few others)

 

[joey55]

Spot on!

I believe this is the case for 2 main reasons.

Firstly, Carrick while not a physical player is an excellent defensive midfielder who reads the game very well. He has the uncanny knack of being in the right place at the right time, he also wins nearly every near post header from corners. It would be very interesting to see how many goals we conceded from corners or deep set pieces while he was in the team?

The second reason is the fact that we retained possession so much better when he was in the team.

It should be added though that we played with more defensively minded players for alot of that time. Edman and Stalteri are more defensive minded than Lee and Chimbo. TT and Davids are also far more solid than Zokora and Steed. We had a better balance and a better shape BUT, we scored far fewer goals.

This is true, but it's often over looked that in Jol's first 26 games (the 2004/5 season) we had the likes of Kelly at RB and Reid on LW, not Davids and Stalteri, yet we had our best defensive record during that period. Edman was the LB, but he's not as solid as Lee. Also, people forget how poor Naybet was, after Ramadan. His body was too old to cope with fasting whilst being a pro sportsman and he never got his form back and ended up being dropped for Dawson.

Also, we only scored 4 more goals in the 2006/7 season, than we did in the more solid 2005/6 season, so surely the signing of Berbatov alone makes up for those. Had the 2006/7 team had Mido instead of Berba, we'd have probaly scored 5 or so goals less than the season before. This is because Carrick was also our main provider. For example our top chance creator this season was Berbatov, who made 52 chances. In the 2005/6 season Carrick made 67 chances for us!

 

[mil1lion]

When Jol was put officially in charge, the first change he made, was to put Carrick in the team and play him in DM. Over the next 64 Premiership games, we conceded just 63 goals, all of which Robbo played in and Dawson for the large majority. Since Carrick left, we've played 76 games and conceded 115 goals. Basically we concede on average 0.5 goals per game more post Carrick. So whilst undoubtedly Robbo has been awful, there is very strong evidence that we'd see an equally big improvement on our defensive record by recruiting a top quality DM.

Its a tricky one to assess really. Although i agree that Carrick played a big role in that, especially with the ability to keep the ball better in midfield. However, we also had King play a big role in that season you refer to. He and Dawson were immense, and Robbo hadn't been destroyed by the media. The last two seasons have been a complete nightmare for our skipper however, and its clear that we defend a hell of a lot better with him in the side. Plus we also had Naybet as cover who was our El-Dunne of a few years back. We conceded far more set pieces because of it, and Carrick was the front post man for set pieces, in much the same way as Berbatov is now. So we defended better from crosses with King, Dawson and Naybet. In fact Dawson got to so many crosses he was looking like the next John Terry.

I think it just highlights the number of problems we've had this past year. King being out for so long. Robbos drop of confidence. No Naybet, although Rocha might have done the job if it weren't for injury. Dawson unable to perform without King alongside him. Most of these issues have been addresed now (except El-Dunne) but for the DM. So while a DM will no doubt make a big difference to the goals we concede, it will be the combination of Hutton, Woodgate, King (returning from injury,) Dawson alongside King or Woodgate, Gomes and Gilberto and Guntar as cover, aswell as the DM. In which case, we may not know exactly how much difference a DM can make. I'm not the biggest fan of Zokora, but with King, Woodgate and Gomes behind him, we should be a whole lot better in defence.

 

[mil1lion]

It should be added though that we played with more defensively minded players for alot of that time. Edman and Stalteri are more defensive minded than Lee and Chimbo. TT and Davids are also far more solid than Zokora and Steed. We had a better balance and a better shape BUT, we scored far fewer goals.

Thats right. Although i would also say Lee was very much more of a defensive player then Chimbonda. The whole balance of the team has changed from the more resilient defensive side that almost finished 4th. Plus we also had 2 defensive midfielders in Davids and Carrick. Both Davids and Carrick were sold and we had Malbranque who works hard to defend but is much more attack minded then Davids, and Zokora who cant keep possession as well as Carrick and doesn't read the game as well. As much as i rated Carrick though, i find it strange that Davids isn't mentioned as much. Although he struggled with the pace of the Premier League, he had the leadership and experience that we lack today. Although i still think Tainio could play the role that Davids did for us. Albelda would be great aswell though.

Hi M - I think you'll find that I haven't wrtten JJ off yet (nor quite a few others)

Yeah i noticed that.

 

[TheWaddler]

I like JJ - yes he's inconsistent, but then so are Spurs. IMO he's our best midfielder (not judging Modric yet), and we play worse when he isn't in the team.

He has so many attributes he should be a world beater - pace, stamina, dribbling, shooting, heading - he can't put it all together at the same time very often, but I'm willing to wait longer before shipping him out, because when he does get it together there won't be many better.

Like others have said, Lampard figured it out fairly late on in his career, as did David Platt - both the goal scoring midfielders that JJ should be emulating.

It will be interesting to see if Ramos partners him and Modric in the centre, as LM can take the creative responsibility away from JJ, allowing him to break up play, run box-to-box and arrive late in the area, which are his strengths.

 

[PT]

Perhaps it's the blend, the mixtures of parts that make the sum. We've played sporadically brilliantly, no team touching us on our day, then shyte at places like Grimsby when you think WTF?!?

Put JJ in alongside a complimentary MF or DMF and give him a specific mandate and it may be the catalyst. It may even necessitate a different MF or DMF or forward that is tuned in to JJ.

That's the key to all successful teams - a blend of parts to make the sum.