Dimitar Berbatov (Transfer Completed)

[Coyboy]

Personally I think he's gone. I'm mildly surprised because I didn't think Fergie would be willing to pay so much for a player with no sell on value and with his sulky attitude. But £25m will do it and I think they'll stump up now. It's also a very good bit of business for us and although it will be impossible, imo, to replace him with a player who will hit the same heights if we can find someone who avoids some of his lows then we may have a player who contributes as much to the team.

Fair points but I am pretty sure we would not accept £25 million. £30 million at least to a domestic buyer.

 

[sashka]

Actually, it's more dangerous when the agent is silent than when he speaks. Because he speaks when he has to do a job. If the job is done, i.e. if some agreement is reached, there is no need to talk (a lot).

absolutley and I am now very worried he is gone

 

[robofan]

Actually, it's more dangerous when the agent is silent than when he speaks. Because he speaks when he has to do a job. If the job is done, i.e. if some agreement is reached, there is no need to talk (a lot).

Actually, in this case it is the reverse - he went to far :silenced:

 

[Rabbi_Krustofski]

TH

Thats Berba hiding??

THats Ekoutu

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Good to see that I've stirred up some proper debate :wink: You're right there DM, but you know that football doesn't work like that anymore. The bigger clubs use their power, mainly through the media, to drive deals through. If they really want their man, they will get their man, even if they have to pay a hefty sum.

We're not really disagreeing, except in detail. The buying clubs cannot "drive the deal through". The "power ... in the media" is not real power at all, it's a sign of weakness. If the CL clubs could really compel other clubs to sell, then they would not have to carry on these needling campaigns of attrition. I was careful in my wording above when I said that the buying clubs cannot "force" the owning clubs to sell. They can't. They can just create a climate of unrest and hope that the players will undermine their clubs' resolve to keep them.

What the CL clubs can do is to keep offering more and more money until the owning club says "OK".

But the press manipulation, leaks, agents briefing and barracking, tapping-up and spin have no effect on Spurs at all. Levy and Comolli are far too experienced and single-minded and I'm sure they simply ignore it. The key factor here is medium-term profit. Levy has concluded that the best way to make money is to invest a huge amount to bounce Spurs into the CL. One or two years in the CL would dwarf any profits that could be made from selling players. That sets us apart from the other chasing teams. We don't need the money and we have another objective in our sights.

I'm sure the spin has an effect to unsettle the players. But I expect that Levy and Comolli already knew which players are unsettled quite some time ago. And that won't affect their decisions, either. Money. A lot of it. And soon. That's what will get them to sell.

To my mind, the only real risk to Tottenham of this whole dance is that Levy & Comolli could make a judgment that they can get a replacement, complete the sale of a key player and then find that the deal for the replacement breaks down at the last minute. That would be a major cock-up. My understanding from several reliable-sounding ITKs, including "Dan Ashcroft", is that they have decided not to do this - they won't confirm a sale until they have confirmed the purchase of a replacement. Whether that will work in the real world remains to be seen.

 

[sloth]

To my mind, the only real risk to Tottenham of this whole dance is that Levy & Comolli could make a judgment that they can get a replacement, complete the sale of a key player and then find that the deal for the replacement breaks down at the last minute. That would be a major cock-up. My understanding from several reliable-sounding ITKs, including "Dan Ashcroft", is that they have decided not to do this - they won't confirm a sale until they have confirmed the purchase of a replacement. Whether that will work in the real world remains to be seen.

My gut feeling is that it's not Levy and Commolli but Ramos who is sanguine about Berba's putative departure. I honestly don't think Ramos rates him as highly as many fans do (probably because I don't either lol; why do we always ascribe our own 'wisdom' to those more knowledgeable than ourselves?!? ), but the bracketed bit aside, I really don't think he does.

Ramos is very much in the 'team's the star' camp and while all managers pay lip service to the ideal I believe Ramos not only believes it but bases his whole philosophy around it. He'll think that if he has a player who can hold it up, lay it off and put it in the back of the net when required (Kanoute for example), even if he can't do it as well as Berba, the extra funds realised from a 27 year old's sale, combined with the long term lift (even if there's a short-term dip) in team spirits with the removal of a sulky individualist presence in the dressing room, will ultimately lead to an improved squad.

 

[nightgoat]

Is it a bit odd that Man Utd have put Berb's agent's comments on their own official website?

Talk about shit stirring. ****s.

http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid={B4CEE8FA-9A47-47BC-B069-3F7A2F35DB70}&newsid=6613760

Well here's what Ronaldo would look like in a Spurs shirt next season...

I'd like to hear someone from the club threaten to go to UEFA over their 'approach' for Berbatov as it's no worse than Real/Ronaldo...

 

[hughy]

Hutton > Ronaldo.

 

[yanno]

My gut feeling is that it's not Levy and Commolli but Ramos who is sanguine about Berba's putative departure. I honestly don't think Ramos rates him as highly as many fans do (probably because I don't either lol; why do we always ascribe our own 'wisdom' to those more knowledgeable than ourselves?!? ), but the bracketed bit aside, I really don't think he does.

Ramos is very much in the 'team's the star' camp and while all managers pay lip service to the ideal I believe Ramos not only believes it but bases his whole philosophy around it. He'll think that if he has a player who can hold it up, lay it off and put it in the back of the net when required (Kanoute for example), even if he can't do it as well as Berba, the extra funds realised from a 27 year old's sale, combined with the long term lift (even if there's a short-term dip) in team spirits with the removal of a sulky individualist presence in the dressing room, will ultimately lead to an improved squad.

But, as you acknowledge, that is entirely based on your own opinion that:

a) Ramos doesn't rate Berba that highly;

b) Berba is a "sulky individualist" who you imply drags team morale down.

I disagree with both points, although again it's entirely a matter of opinion.

What we do know is that Ramos personally targetted Kanoute for Sevilla, persuaded Monchi & Del Nido to sign him, and made him the hub of the team.
(Source here: http://www.worldsoccer.com/interviews/sevilla_coach_juande_ramos_interview_107105.html)

When Ramos arrived at Spurs, he switched Berba to playing the role Kanoute played at Sevilla. Imo Ramos 100% knows that Berba is an upgrade on Kanoute, and that he will be very difficult to replace. The most touted replacement is Diego Milito, who's a good player but closer to Kanoute's level than Berba's. In other words, if Berba is replaced by Milito, the team will be weakened.

As for Berba being a disruptive sulky influence, I've never really believed this. As great players go, he's not particularly moody. Henry is far worse. Cantona was moody as hell, but Ferguson made him the heartbeat of his team. Berba complains when he gets poor service. I don't have a huge problem with that.

Berba's a better player than Steve Archibald, whom I remember turning round to swear and flap his arms at Hoddle numerous times during matches rather than chasing after through balls delivered by the best playmaker in Europe.

If Berba goes, (and I really hope he doesn't), the team will be weakened, and we will have lost a great player. I don't believe Ramos wants this.

 

[wadewill]

its been said before but I would be a hundred times more bothered if keane goes, I feel he is much more important to this football club

 

[sloth]

But, as you acknowledge, that is entirely based on your own opinion that:

a) Ramos doesn't rate Berba that highly;

b) Berba is a "sulky individualist" who you imply drags team morale down.

I disagree with both points, although again it's entirely a matter of opinion.

What we do know is that Ramos personally targetted Kanoute for Sevilla, persuaded Monchi & Del Nido to sign him, and made him the hub of the team.
(Source here: http://www.worldsoccer.com/interviews/sevilla_coach_juande_ramos_interview_107105.html)

When Ramos arrived at Spurs, he switched Berba to playing the role Kanoute played at Sevilla. Imo Ramos 100% knows that Berba is an upgrade on Kanoute, and that he will be very difficult to replace. The most touted replacement is Diego Milito, who's a good player but closer to Kanoute's level than Berba's. In other words, if Berba is replaced by Milito, the team will be weakened.

As for Berba being a disruptive sulky influence, I've never really believed this. As great players go, he's not particularly moody. Henry is far worse. Cantona was moody as hell, but Ferguson made him the heartbeat of his team. Berba complains when he gets poor service. I don't have a huge problem with that.

Berba's a better player than Steve Archibald, whom I remember turning round to swear and flap his arms at Hoddle numerous times during matches rather than chasing after through balls delivered by the best playmaker in Europe.

If Berba goes, (and I really hope he doesn't), the team will be weakened, and we will have lost a great player. I don't believe Ramos wants this.

Yeah, I know it's only opinion and wouldn't try and argue it with anyone, but it's what i think so there you go

 

[mil1lion]

I honestly cant believe how stupid the press can be. They're saying that we want £35m but we're willing to accept £25m. Does that really make sense to anybody whatsoever? So we're willing to drop our asking price by £10m? OK.

 

[nightgoat]

Hutton > Ronaldo.

Yeah, but that was the best picture of the new shirt I could find... :grin:

 

[sloth]

I honestly cant believe how stupid the press can be. They're saying that we want £35m but we're willing to accept £25m. Does that really make sense to anybody whatsoever? So we're willing to drop our asking price by £10m? OK.

I think his selling price is £25m and always has been. I've never once believed the figures of £35m being bandied about, if he was 23 then fair enough, but this will be his last big signing fee and that brings the price down massively, in fact I'm certain that if Utd weren't resigned to losing Ronaldo they wouldn't even entertain paying £25m.

 

[hughy]

its been said before but I would be a hundred times more bothered if keane goes, I feel he is much more important to this football club

That's my general feeling. I said a similar thing yesterday, but someone, (Flatters), took exception to it. It goes without question that Keane is more important to the team than Berbatov is. Eventhough to be honest, it would make for a much nicer Summer if we kept hold of both.

 

[Jody]

I think his selling price is £25m and always has been. I've never once believed the figures of £35m being bandied about, if he was 23 then fair enough, but this will be his last big signing fee and that brings the price down massively, in fact I'm certain that if Utd weren't resigned to losing Ronaldo they wouldn't even entertain paying £25m.

I don't think his age will have that much of an impact on the fee. Zidane was 29 and went for a world record fee, as was Figo. The top teams are prepared to take a punt on the worlds best players knowing they won't get a great sell on but will enjoy success whilst they are there.

 

[don1]

might be a stupid question but why do people think keane is more important than berbatov, i went through a lot of post and some people feel the same way, i think myself that keane might not score as many goals if berbatov was not with him

 

[mil1lion]

might be a stupid question but why do people think keane is more important than berbatov, i went through a lot of post and some people feel the same way, i think myself that keane might not score as many goals if berbatov was not with him

Because Keane is more of a team player and in important influence on the players, on and off the pitch. He's our vice captain and he's our leader up front. I dont think people are saying Keane is better than Berbatov, but more important as a team player. Just take a look at the photos on the Spurs website and you'll see the significance of two contrasting characters. Keane is much better for team morale. Plus, he is more likely to see out his career at Spurs then Berbatov, who is more likely to go abroad at some point.

As for scoring goals, i think Keane would score just as many, if not more, without Berbatov. He has become a real fox in the box type of player, and with great service from midfield, he'll capitilise. He would benefit a lot from service from Modric, Giovani and hopefully Bentley. In fact, any strikers we have, will score plenty of goals. Especially as we play such attck minded football under Ramos.

 

[Mr Gamgee]

i will be gutted if we sell to man utd. this is why the top 4 stay the top 4, as soon as a club look like they can break it, they pick off their best players

 

[Flatters]

That's my general feeling. I said a similar thing yesterday, but someone, (Flatters), took exception to it. It goes without question that Keane is more important to the team than Berbatov is. Eventhough to be honest, it would make for a much nicer Summer if we kept hold of both.

:lol:

Care to expand on that?